GRIPPA.

00:00:07Welcome back to the Ouchmonkeys podcast.

00:00:09The following is a conversation with my great friend, Gripper, also known as Robin Laybourne.

00:00:16We met up in Gripper's recording studio in Greenwich, where we discussed music, sound engineering, Gripper's band The Hempolics, and our careers in the music industry, long into the night.

00:00:27Enjoy the show.

00:00:46So anyway, at last I'm at Gripper's studio.

00:00:50Hello.

00:00:50It's wicked to be here.

00:00:52I've been meaning to do this for ages.

00:00:55I've known Gripper since the first day I moved to London, which is a long time ago.

00:00:59The first day in the studio, at Trident Studios, I met Gripper with his long dreads.

00:01:05who was already kind of famous amongst the engineers when I got there.

00:01:09But, yeah, I just want to know about...

00:01:13This is going to be wicked, because most of the people I've spoken to are academic, and, you know, I kind of talk about music in an academic way, but I'm not saying Gripper's not academic, but...

00:01:26He's far from it, but he's been in music since before I've known him, and that's a long time.

00:01:33So, Grip, how did you get started in music?

00:01:37What's your earliest memories of music, like in your house?

00:01:41I know there'll have been tons of music because you're even named after a musician, but what was your earliest memories and what got you into music?

00:01:48I don't know, really.

00:01:49I used to, like, mime to Elvis when I was two and Shaken Stevens.

00:01:54You know, I used to watch Top of the Pops, like, it was, you know, just love Top of the Pops.

00:01:59That was a big show and The Tube and, you know, all these, like, Brit, you know, when Britain had amazing music to me, 70s and 80s, you know.

00:02:09Just song after song after song were like tunes.

00:02:13And did you do any music at school or was it, would you just like into it?

00:02:16No, I used to wait outside the, well, basically at school because I wasn't posh enough.

00:02:22I didn't really get to learn anything because, I don't know, we just got told to get out.

00:02:28And it was the posh kids who had money who were allowed to sort of go in the music room and do all that.

00:02:34Whose parents could pay for their lessons and stuff.

00:02:35Yeah, exactly.

00:02:36My parents wouldn't pay for nothing.

00:02:38What?

00:02:39Same.

00:02:40You know what I mean?

00:02:41So, yeah, I just, and, yeah.

00:02:45But I was going to festivals from when I was like seven, six.

00:02:48So I was going to Glastonbury.

00:02:49They were taking me, all my family used to go to Glastonbury.

00:02:52My aunties, uncles, my cousins, my mum and dad.

00:02:55My sister used to stay at home for some reason.

00:02:58But I used to just, it was better than Christmas for me.

00:03:01Just out at the festivals?

00:03:02Yeah.

00:03:02Just watching.

00:03:03Roaming around.

00:03:05And I was always like, shite, good, great, rubbish.

00:03:08I always had an opinion.

00:03:11And I always had an ear, in a way, I think.

00:03:14One thing I had was a bit of an ear through all the music, all my uncles and my aunties and my mum and dad.

00:03:20Because your family's got a musical.

00:03:21There's a bit of musicalness in your family.

00:03:24Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:03:28My dad played guitar, my uncles played guitar, one would be Bob Dylan.

00:03:33Bods.

00:03:36So what was your first...

00:03:36So, yeah, so it was always singing along, singing along and just music on the telly.

00:03:40And just into it.

00:03:42What sort of bands did you like when you were younger, like coming up?

00:03:45When I was a little kid.

00:03:46Like when you were sort of a little kid.

00:03:47The first 7-inch I ever bought, I was 8 or 9.

00:03:51It was like 8 or 9, and I was in Charlie Brown's in Stockton High Street, and it was 99 pence, 7-inch then, and I reckon it was 1980.

00:04:0481.

00:04:05And it was Bad Manners.

00:04:07Oh, yeah.

00:04:08So it was ska.

00:04:09Just ska and reggae.

00:04:10I've just always liked it since I was eight, seven or eight.

00:04:13I found Bob Marley when I was eight through my best mate.

00:04:16Yeah, yeah.

00:04:17Who I met in junior school.

00:04:19And he turned me on to reggae.

00:04:21He was obsessed with Jamaica and reggae.

00:04:23And I just...

00:04:24loved it straight away and then watched babylon when it came on channel four um the movie you know with all the aswad yeah yeah soundtrack and um jar shaka and stuff and i just that was my bible you know the main characters brindisi brindisi what's his name brindisville ford anyway

00:04:45The main character's the guy who sings in Aswad, and he's an actor in it because he was like a child actor as well.

00:04:50Yeah, yeah.

00:04:51And before he got into Aswad.

00:04:53And he's called Blue, and, you know, I called my son Blue.

00:04:57Yes, same.

00:04:58In 1995.

00:05:00So that's how much I loved that film.

00:05:03So just always loved, yeah, always just Jamaican ska, reggae, you know.

00:05:08So, yeah, sorry, so back in Charlie Brown's I bought...

00:05:11Buster Blood Vessel, Bad Manners, Special Brew, and I bought Musical Youth, Pasta Ducci, I mean.

00:05:16Yeah, it's all that proper.

00:05:17My favourite thing in the world is weed.

00:05:19I think my first single was Rocksteady Crew.

00:05:22Yeah, I bought that as well, Rocksteady Crew.

00:05:24I remember that, yeah.

00:05:26I say, you know, when we were kids, it was, you know, one year it was Scar and Two Tone and Madness and the Specials, and then all of a sudden we were joeys with...

00:05:35with night cagoos and pumas and, you know, night... A bit of lino.

00:05:39Night woolly waffles, yeah, with some lino and faras on.

00:05:42Yeah, I had the faras.

00:05:43And grandad shirts and cardigans, and we were having burnouts with people, you know.

00:05:48Yeah, swiping bits of lino and going down the streets.

00:05:51And, you know, we loved disco as well, cos, you know, that movie...

00:05:55Saturday Night Fever blew me away when I watched that when I was a little kid.

00:05:59And Grease and all that.

00:06:00Yeah, and Grease, you know.

00:06:01I don't know, I just thought we...

00:06:03I thought, you know, we're the same age and I just think we've been lucky, man.

00:06:06And the North as well was a different...

00:06:08I feel like the North, the vibe was different.

00:06:10We'll get to that in a minute, the North and the South.

00:06:13The North.

00:06:14But yeah, so exactly like, you're the same on the estates.

00:06:18It was madness and specials.

00:06:20And everyone had music playing out there.

00:06:22People would point the speakers out the windows when I was a kid.

00:06:26Now you can't do nothing.

00:06:29You know, we're more aware of everything, but we're sort of like more restricted in so many ways than we were years ago to me, you know.

00:06:36And it seems like music's kind of splintered off.

00:06:38Like you said...

00:06:40I definitely remember as a kid everything was kind of good.

00:06:43It wasn't like that was split up from that.

00:06:45Everything was just music.

00:06:46You'd listen to like...

00:06:48The Cure, the Smiths.

00:06:49The Culture Club, yeah.

00:06:50The Culture Club were banging.

00:06:51And you'd listen to everything.

00:06:52Bit of Bowie.

00:06:53And you weren't going all into that.

00:06:55Art and Noise.

00:06:56They were doing instrumentals as hit number ones.

00:06:58Like, what the fuck, you know?

00:07:01Just don't know, just love them days.

00:07:04So you started off in your music kind of journey, just started off as a fan?

00:07:08I guess mine did as well.

00:07:10I didn't really have any...

00:07:12I guess as well from being up north, if you looked at musicians, you kind of thought, how the fuck did you get there?

00:07:17Yeah.

00:07:17Do you know what I mean?

00:07:19It was so alien, you just thought they were in another world, wasn't it?

00:07:23Yeah.

00:07:24Like the whole musical world was like somewhere else.

00:07:26Yeah.

00:07:27And you were just on the estate walking down the street.

00:07:29Studios back then, you had to have a lot of money to be in a studio.

00:07:32It was another world, wasn't it, for us?

00:07:33Yeah, and also there wasn't as much gear.

00:07:35There weren't any little studios really up north, was there?

00:07:38There was like the little crap studios somewhere with the little four-track up.

00:07:41Kids down here were having studios in their music room.

00:07:44Imagine that.

00:07:45I know.

00:07:46Jesus Christ, all I got was these little fricking recorder played at.

00:07:52Did you play any instruments at school?

00:07:54No.

00:07:55Played recorder.

00:07:56That was it.

00:07:57I think I had recorder lessons when I was about eight years old.

00:08:00Try to play the drums.

00:08:02Again, Dad wouldn't play me lessons, but wouldn't buy me a kit.

00:08:05I don't know.

00:08:07You know what I'm like, I've got ADHD, so, you know, it's like I get distracted very easy, you know.

00:08:16But it was weird because ever since I was a kid, I loved technology.

00:08:21I was always the one who could do the video recorder, do the telly.

00:08:25Even when I was five, I could set the clocks and tech things apart.

00:08:31I'd have tape-to-tapes before tape-to-tapes came out.

00:08:36Yeah, like copying tapes from computer games.

00:08:38Yeah, exactly, and selling Spectrum, selling videos, trying to hustle some money so I could get my hash.

00:08:47No, but, you know, and I love skateboarding as well.

00:08:49That was a massive thing.

00:08:50Same here, man.

00:08:50I was a massive into skateboarding.

00:08:51But I didn't really like most of the music.

00:08:53It was too heavy metal for me.

00:08:54Like, not heavy metal.

00:08:55Yeah, it was that kind of American punk.

00:08:56It was past heavy metal, yeah.

00:08:57Yeah, is that like...

00:08:58It was that sort of like... That's like straight edge stuff with the crosses on the back of the hand.

00:09:01That wasn't my vibe.

00:09:02But, you know, I got some of them I loved.

00:09:04Some tracks were buzzing.

00:09:05Minor Threat and all that kind of stuff.

00:09:0710% of that, you know.

00:09:09But the culture was there, it's like the club, I mean, I'm like you, I still wear stussy stuff and that, and my culture's still from when I was a kid skateboarding.

00:09:15I've got T-shirts still from when I'm 17, wearing 16, still fit me.

00:09:20And your skateboard's upstairs.

00:09:21Yeah, my skateboards are all upstairs, yeah, you know, big kids aren't we, really?

00:09:25Yeah.

00:09:25But everything I couldn't get.

00:09:27I think we were like, we've stuck at being like 8 or 10 years old.

00:09:31Yeah.

00:09:31But that's what you've got to do.

00:09:32So how did you, because I started, I sort of followed a normal, I guess I was like...

00:09:38Followed an academic path at school.

00:09:40I wasn't really into music till a mate of mine Like I remember they got a drum kit at school and I didn't even do music But there was one music lesson and I just fucking leapt on the kit and that was it I was like, oh man, I've got some point.

00:09:53I'm probably gonna play music

00:09:55What made you, what was the leap to sort of being, because I know you didn't come from a background as much as a player like I did, because you came through the studios, man, but how did you get, what was your path into studio work?

00:10:09Because what did you do at first?

00:10:12Did you have a job at first before you came into studios up north?

00:10:14Yeah.

00:10:15Or did you just come?

00:10:16What did you do?

00:10:17Yeah, yeah.

00:10:18So I basically left school, got hustled from going into a clothes shop because I was pretty cool, dressing and all that.

00:10:25So I was like 15 and I got asked to come and work at the Saturday job.

00:10:29So I started there and another better shop got me.

00:10:33Then I was working.

00:10:33Then I was like, it was basically...

00:10:35Acid House as well.

00:10:36Yeah, that was all kicking off.

00:10:37Yeah, so it's Acid House and then proper raving.

00:10:44He's 88, 89, 90.

00:10:4588, yeah, exactly.

00:10:47And before that, I was breakdancing.

00:10:49Completely breakdancing.

00:10:50Trying to do graffiti, it was pretty shit.

00:10:53Trying to spray on the walls.

00:10:55Trying to be like America, really.

00:10:58Do you know what I mean?

00:10:59Just looking at America when we were in the 80s.

00:11:02What I would...

00:11:03I would do that.

00:11:03Dream to be in one of them 80s animal house parties, you know, getting a blowjob in one of their bedrooms, like on the movies.

00:11:12In a shopping trolly.

00:11:15You know what I mean?

00:11:16You know, just looking up at America, really, you know.

00:11:18But still loving, I don't know.

00:11:20I've been hanging on the estate.

00:11:22Still loving English money.

00:11:24Money?

00:11:24Music, you know, just.

00:11:27But, yeah, but basically, yeah, so I got a job in a nightclub where I was partying in.

00:11:34Asked them for a job next minute, I'm working there as well.

00:11:36What were you doing in the nightclub?

00:11:38Glass collecting and barman.

00:11:40Oh, like just dossing about.

00:11:41Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:42And then, you know, partying.

00:11:44Because it was party time.

00:11:45I thought I took about, I reckon, between 15 and 18.

00:11:50Because 18 was when I came to London, 15.

00:11:55With 1988, 89, and I took about 300 acid in them, probably in that three year space.

00:12:02Because I remember like the acid house.

00:12:03Three or four, because I couldn't afford an E. I'd have a few E's, but it was 25 pound then.

00:12:09It was 25 quid an E, and I remember like, before even E's came out, I remember going to the clubs and it would be all about acid, and then the E's came out, and I remember took the first.

00:12:17Take five acid and just dance my ass off.

00:12:20Drink Lucuzade?

00:12:20I used to love it, no.

00:12:21I just loved all that.

00:12:22I immersed myself into it.

00:12:23The music was brilliant, wasn't it?

00:12:25The culture was wicked, the music was great, the vibe was really good.

00:12:28It was kind of like punk, but again.

00:12:32That's kind of what got me into music, man.

00:12:34It was 1989 was like 1969 revisited.

00:12:37Second Summer of Love.

00:12:39Exactly.

00:12:39It was probably better.

00:12:40Do you know what I mean?

00:12:41Because I don't think it was that great in 69, I reckon.

00:12:46I don't know.

00:12:46It looked all right, but I think 89 was amazing.

00:12:50Honest, you were raving.

00:12:52All of a sudden, I'm in a part of a club or a rave with the fucking glue sniffer who used to fucking chase the arse out of me and spit on me and try to kick, you know, like surround me and beat the fuck.

00:13:04Next minute, the next year, raving with their hands up, you know, and then there was always, every rave, there was always one person who would dance the most and they wouldn't take anything.

00:13:13Yeah.

00:13:13Do you know what I mean?

00:13:14You go, mate, what have you been?

00:13:16Nothing.

00:13:16They're just like northern lunatics.

00:13:19I remember my mate was that northern lunatic.

00:13:21What was his name?

00:13:22I remember one time the power went out at a rave and he just got his headphones and he was just dancing, raving in the middle of the thing on his own off his nut.

00:13:30Yeah, Stockton-on-Tees, middle's where I'm talking about and I'm talking about the north, that's where I was brought up.

00:13:35I played some gigs in Stockton back in the day.

00:13:37Not in Stockton, but in Borough.

00:13:39Yeah, it's a little bit, you know, it's the wild, wild north.

00:13:44But good people, really good people.

00:13:46You talk to people at the bus stop, tell them your shit.

00:13:52So then I was the same, I was kind of into... And in a way, that kind of Acid House thing led me into... That's what led me into the studios, because I kind of thought...

00:14:02I was listening to Acid House tunes and I was DJing, and I thought, fuck, man, I...

00:14:06Anyone can do this.

00:14:07Well, it kind of felt like anyone could do it.

00:14:09You know, like with punk, anyone could pick up a guitar and play it.

00:14:12But that was before our time, really.

00:14:13But it kind of was like new punk.

00:14:15It was like, oh, shit, if you get a sampler, or if you can get...

00:14:19I remember we were on the door, and we managed to blag our way into a studio, cheap as we were on the door, and fucking use the studio.

00:14:25And that's how we started and made a house record.

00:14:28But what led you into a studio then from being in that sort of side of your life?

00:14:34Getting wrecked and working in clubs.

00:14:36A few of my joints.

00:14:38Oh, sorry.

00:14:40Have a good cup of tea.

00:14:42Quick, the quick scenario was I basically, 1991, raving started getting dodgy.

00:14:53The bounces started, the vibe started changing.

00:14:57The bounces started taking over the drugs and taxing and people taxing and, you know, just all that horribleness.

00:15:04And then just everything, and then the music changed.

00:15:08Yeah.

00:15:09Then my best friend died in a car crash and it just spun me out.

00:15:15The guy who got me into reggae, Lee Payne he was called, and he, I don't know what he was doing, I think he was skinning up man, driving.

00:15:22And his car, anyway he flipped over, broke his neck and I literally thought, why wasn't I in the car, why wasn't I in the car?

00:15:30I should have been in the car, I should have been with him.

00:15:32And it was just an awful time.

00:15:35And I went off the rails, went out with this slag for like a month, took absolutely loads of ease and drugs.

00:15:42And then I went, I'm going to Europe.

00:15:44And I hitched me my other mate, hitchhiked from up north down to Isle of Wight, did some flower picking.

00:15:50Fuck's sake, I had 70 quid.

00:15:53when I left to go to Europe.

00:15:57He had some 250 quid, my mate, and I had 70 quid.

00:16:00And we got the one-day ferry return from Southampton, Portsmouth, to somewhere in, it wasn't Calais, it was somewhere more in the middle, I think, I can't remember.

00:16:11Yeah, anyway, we jumped all over.

00:16:13Anyway, got picked up by some weird dude who was trying to fricking bum us.

00:16:17Sean was like, weird.

00:16:18Oh, it was awful.

00:16:19We had to jump, get out of the van, get away.

00:16:21Anyway, that's another story.

00:16:23Got to Paris, stayed in some campsite.

00:16:27Wandered Paris for ages, looking at the girls, never bloody pulled.

00:16:31And then went to Belgium, boring as fuck it felt.

00:16:35It would have been boring.

00:16:3517, 18, Belgian lads telling us to get the fuck out of here.

00:16:38From Brussels, like, go home.

00:16:41It was like when you had that one-year paper passport.

00:16:44Yeah, yeah, I remember I had that yellow one.

00:16:46Yeah, yeah, this little daft one-year paper passport.

00:16:49And, you know, I looked about fucking 15, 14 when I was 17, 18.

00:16:53Same.

00:16:53I just looked so young, long hair.

00:16:55you know and so did my mate Gilly and then we got to Amsterdam basically that's the bottom line and we fucking were in Amsterdam for like five months and so yeah testing drugs ended up testing acid testing harsh all for getting sent to England plus we did some cropping and worked in a bookshop and then

00:17:20It got to winter and then it just felt like Amsterdam was cold and small and just got homesick.

00:17:27Six months felt like a long time when you're that age.

00:17:30Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

00:17:30Six months and you're like 18, 19, 15, 16, 17.

00:17:32Exactly, yeah.

00:17:34So then just back with, you know, I remember when we got the ferry back on the middle of the night and we thought it was a good idea to take loads of drugs back to home, loads of weed, loads of LSD, and then we got scared because we took a trip just before we got on the boat.

00:17:52Yeah, and then so we're on this boat, the waves were, for all us, it was mental, trying to fucking, the spliff just went with the wind, it just disappeared down.

00:18:01But we're like, we need to smoke it and not waste it because we've spent the money on it and we don't want to, we're too scared to like smuggle it into England.

00:18:10We got on the ferry alright, you know what I mean, but then this acid's flying.

00:18:13Yeah, it was crazy and we didn't think of fucking getting a cabin because we had no money.

00:18:19So we were just wandering around, tripping on this boat, where it was just rocking so bad that one minute the granny was just on the other side of the room.

00:18:29And we were all, you know, it was just fucked up.

00:18:33Anyway, got back home and it was back in the clothes shop, back in the fucking nightclub.

00:18:39No, I don't think I was back in the night because it had shut down.

00:18:42The Havana had shut down by then.

00:18:43Anyway, back there and I'm back in this clothes shop.

00:18:47Oh, the days, this feeling like it was forever.

00:18:50And my mum going nuts with me.

00:18:53Oh, yeah.

00:18:53And I actually, before that, I actually, oh, God, I had.

00:18:57That's another story, but I went to court for attempted armed robbery when I was 17.

00:19:01What happened there?

00:19:02Some bullshit.

00:19:03It was bullshit.

00:19:04Police setting you up, man.

00:19:05Police used to stitch you up?

00:19:06Yeah, trying to set me up because they tried to get me for some drugs at school.

00:19:11Some kid got caught smoking, said he got off me and he didn't.

00:19:14And I didn't find out for years later to get out of it.

00:19:17He's like, you know, saying my name.

00:19:20So then they had the eye on me and the headmaster rung the drug squad.

00:19:25basically, and I was coming there one day in the morning on the bus, and it was a public bus, and it was a 10-mile...

00:19:33Remember, I lived in this little tiny village in the middle of nowhere.

00:19:38So it was 10 miles to this town to go to this sixth-form college.

00:19:41It was a sixth-form college, so, yeah, so this was 89.

00:19:45you know, Stone Roses had come out, NWA has come out.

00:19:49Yeah, wicked, yeah.

00:19:50You know what I mean?

00:19:51Music was great.

00:19:52The cue were, you know, tune after tune.

00:19:54It was like the charts were just full of...

00:19:57Your favourite, the Stone Roses, you know, they were Borny and Brown and them guys.

00:20:02Oh, that documentary was a good one, yeah.

00:20:03I just watched it for the first time.

00:20:05Which one?

00:20:06You know, the one that Shane Meadows did.

00:20:09Oh, I haven't seen it.

00:20:10I've not seen it yet.

00:20:11Haven't you?

00:20:11No.

00:20:12What?

00:20:12I haven't been watching telly.

00:20:13What, a documentary?

00:20:14Anyway.

00:20:15I watched the Beatles one.

00:20:16But anyway, go on.

00:20:17Yeah, so what am I doing?

00:20:18So I'm back up north, right, and I swear down on my life, right, I'm in this clothes shop.

00:20:24I can't remember what day.

00:20:24I think it was Saturday.

00:20:26We had to hit targets.

00:20:29Anyway, I'm dancing around in this clothes shop.

00:20:31I don't think it was Saturday, actually.

00:20:33It was another day because it was quiet.

00:20:35And then this woman who I'd never seen, this little old...

00:20:39Are you allowed to say gypsy?

00:20:40I'm saying gypsy.

00:20:42Some little old gypsy woman comes in and she tries to go past where she's allowed, you know, not allowed, through the door.

00:20:48And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:20:50And I reckon I was about 15 foot from her.

00:20:53It's quite a big shop.

00:20:54And I was like, you're not allowed to go in there.

00:20:56And then she turned around, she goes, oh, I'm going to see Gary, your boss.

00:21:00And I was like, what are you doing, mate?

00:21:02And then she's like, she's like... And...

00:21:05I'm doing a reading for him.

00:21:07And I was like, what?

00:21:08You're like Gypsy Reader, sort of.

00:21:10crystal ball thing and then she's like yeah and i said well you're not allowed to go in there unless she until you give me a free one right because i was pretty cheeky you were pretty cheeky yeah i'm quite sure of hard anyway so i said that to this woman from 15 foot away right while i'm dancing to the music and messing around like i did and she looks at me and i swear down she goes you're going to be in the you're going to be in the music industry

00:21:36And I just laughed and I just said to her, you're only saying that because I'm dancing.

00:21:39And that was it.

00:21:40And she went off and that was it.

00:21:41Give Gary, I don't even know what she said to Gary or what reading she did him.

00:21:45Never spoke to him about it.

00:21:47And I swear down, I reckon that was December 91.

00:21:53And then March 92, 22nd, the 3rd of March, I came to London and I got a job in a recording studio.

00:22:03The first day in the studio.

00:22:07It was with Buster Blood Vessel, Bad Manners, who had bought... That record.

00:22:12That record with Pastor Dutchie on the same day.

00:22:16So this is like, what, eight years later, seven years later.

00:22:21You know, I've gone through all this other stuff, you know, just like... And now you haven't learned music.

00:22:27I fitted so much in in them years, really, what we did back then.

00:22:30Everyone fucking stays in now, man.

00:22:32It's like, what?

00:22:33We were out all the time.

00:22:35I never was in.

00:22:35Yeah?

00:22:36I used to stay up...

00:22:36There was no internet.

00:22:37There was no... Sunday night, every week.

00:22:39What, we used to have to drive around, what, the Blackburn raves, all these, you know, the bloody... Yeah.

00:22:45dodgy raves along the motorways waiting to hear from someone and then follow it and then next minute Babylon are coming in dogs and you're running for your life people putting drugs in your shit in your van and what was it guru josh i remember putting stashing drugs in anyway that was under borough

00:23:01Just madness, you know.

00:23:03You were never in.

00:23:05So then next minute, I'm in London from, you know, from up there, and next minute I'm in London, in King's Cross, in crack, fucking 30-year-old prosies.

00:23:14They used to come and fuck behind the studio, so I'm like, wild, you know, and I'm with this Buster Wood vessel, five grams of coke gets poured on the table, and he goes, he gives me 200 quid and goes, blag as many bottles of champagne as you can from the offee, and I was like, what the fuck is blag?

00:23:30in my head.

00:23:31I don't even know what it means.

00:23:32The fuck was black?

00:23:32I haven't watched Only Fools and Horses.

00:23:34And then, and then I realised what it was and then, yeah, I fucking nervously went into the shower.

00:23:42how many can I get for 200?

00:23:44Anyway, but that was the start of the studio.

00:23:49Did you come just work?

00:23:50How did you get a job in a studio just for the first one?

00:23:53Through somebody who my mum and dad knew who basically got a 25 grand record deal from Virgin Records for his band and he basically set up a studio.

00:24:05He's called Norton.

00:24:07He's still close.

00:24:11thing but yeah he he basically got a record deal found some uh he hadn't even built the studio really and basically he had a lot of buster blood vessels studio which is another story i didn't even realize that at first i thought it was old norton studio but it was basically buster blood vessel trying to get out of the taxman he owed the taxman money so he hid all his equipment at norton's studio where i start you know and it was a bet we made it was just this big room we put the walls in

00:24:39made these vocal booths in a programming little room.

00:24:42It was a 24-hour thing.

00:24:44We worked 24 hours.

00:24:45It was madness.

00:24:46Was it a project studio with loads and loads of bands coming in?

00:24:49Was it a demo sort of thing?

00:24:50Well, it was the beginning of Sour Records.

00:24:53This is what they started up, him and Dave Stone.

00:24:57Norton Blue and Dave Stone started this Sour Records, and that's where Shy FX got involved with it.

00:25:05It was MJ Cole.

00:25:09Elizabeth Troy was one of the first persons I meet when I came to London the first day.

00:25:14Went to the George Robie and Finstry Park on the first night and seen... Because I know what you're like.

00:25:21You're just like, yeah, cool.

00:25:23Hackney, that's where we hung out.

00:25:24Hackney, Islington.

00:25:25Is he living in a squat or something?

00:25:26Yeah, I was squatting.

00:25:28Came down, squatted, got in this squat.

00:25:31Free electric, free gas.

00:25:33Fucking massive five floors.

00:25:37Duncan Terry's Angel I don't know for two years and we had this fuck, Buster Blade Festival party we had a mad party for this local drug deal from Hackney

00:25:47He was like our friend and it was wild.

00:25:51It was wild.

00:25:51It was that wild that we had to move out of the house.

00:25:57It was everything.

00:25:58Every cake, every food had so many drugs in it and it was fancy dressed.

00:26:04I got scared.

00:26:06There was a spider woman girl who was dressed as spiders jumping on men and giving them mad love bites.

00:26:12I don't know, it was weird.

00:26:13I can remember coming downstairs at like 12 or something and there's a skinhead with a ballerina dress on and my ghetto...

00:26:22I was like, oh, I hope my ghetto blaster's still there.

00:26:26No-one's napped it and they come down and there's my ghetto blaster, right, and I swear down, it was just on the loudest...

00:26:31It was on full volume on crack, you know, just... And this fucking skinhead with a ballerina dress was doing just circles.

00:26:40With mayonnaise and feathers everywhere.

00:26:43It was just fucked up.

00:26:44It was fucked.

00:26:46It stunk from angel tube.

00:26:47You could smell how it was.

00:26:49That's why we had to move out.

00:26:50When did you get the name Gripper?

00:26:52Because he's not your name.

00:26:53The first day of coming.

00:26:56First day coming to London, I always wanted, like, you know, to have a little start somewhere.

00:27:00If I started somewhere new, I wanted a nickname anyway.

00:27:03Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:03Because then for the police.

00:27:05So it's harder for the police to know who you are.

00:27:08You know, it was a lot harder to know who that, you know.

00:27:11So anyway, Buster Blood Vessel, Bad Manners.

00:27:14I don't know if it was the first day or the first week or days.

00:27:18But...

00:27:19I was a lively lad and I used to go, shut the fuck up, I'm fucking hard, I'm from the north and I'll knock yous out, you fucking southern shites.

00:27:33I used to say that to the...

00:27:34Buster Bloodwessel and Smiley Dave and Russell and all them.

00:27:40And then I think, then basically, I never used to pass my joint because I didn't have any money.

00:27:46And I got paid in weed at that point.

00:27:50I think I got paid in weed.

00:27:51I think I was smoking half an ounce a day then when I was at that age and started the studio.

00:27:58So, yeah, so basically I never passed my joint or passed it right at the end.

00:28:02And then they went, you're a fucking gripper.

00:28:04You grip a hold of that spliff.

00:28:06Because, yeah, that was it, basically.

00:28:08And then everyone cracked up laughing off the nuts on cork.

00:28:12So you just got gripped by it.

00:28:14You would bust up a vessel and drink a pint of tequila and orange.

00:28:21so anyway when i came to london a few years later hold on so then first weeks in that studio there was a bell delay there was a roland 770 and there was what else was there i don't think we even had an akai s1000 then it was a roland 770 or 90 with a little mouse and there was a bell delay it was a soundcraft i can't remember you know it was like 30 32 channels and we had an 8 track tascam 16 track

00:28:51It was all busters and some other stuff.

00:28:54I can't freaking remember now.

00:28:55Fuck, what else was there?

00:28:58but I just got that bell to let it and as soon as I got it, I was dubbing.

00:29:02Did you start off assisting?

00:29:04I didn't even know how to do it and I was doing dub.

00:29:07What did you start off doing, like assisting?

00:29:08Yeah, so I was assisting there.

00:29:09Yeah, exactly.

00:29:10Well, I mean, it was just, there was only Norton who could run the equipment, so he just taught me and I was the only other person there.

00:29:17So you just... Yeah, so that was it.

00:29:20So it was just like to learn quick, so then I learned how to do urban.

00:29:23So, yeah, so it was basically from March 92, all of a sudden I'm like, you know, happy house.

00:29:29Not happy house, but, you know, garage and... Yeah, yeah, all that garage.

00:29:32You know, all this cool, you know, like, voodoo child and, you know, all this...

00:29:37you know, all the cool stuff, all of a sudden it's happy hardcore in London and it just changed over.

00:29:43Like really fast.

00:29:44Yeah.

00:29:45Yeah, yeah.

00:29:46And I was like, what the fuck is going on here?

00:29:50And that turned to Jungle, which to me was better because it had loads of reggae in it.

00:29:54So then half of it was reggae for me, you know, but double timed with the beat and stuff.

00:29:59So I did get into that.

00:30:01And I, you know, I used to go to a lot of the...

00:30:02But so, yeah, so...

00:30:04So yeah, then it was Burford Jungle, I was there, I was there, we were doing it in the studio, you know, and Happy Hardcore, T-Power, you know, what was he called before, it was the first, he was the first thing I ever mixed, so, you know, when I got to be able to mix, oh God, what was he called, T-Power before, T-Power, Bear Selective, I think he was called.

00:30:25What was your first mix like, was it good, did you enjoy it?

00:30:27Funky Dread and the Hippie, Homeboy, Funky Dread and the Hippie, you used to know them, you know, it was just like.

00:30:31It was wild, man.

00:30:32It was like, I remember Stussy Darren was the guy.

00:30:35He used to come in the studio and he used to...

00:30:37I've got so many different stories, but he used to do...

00:30:41He had all the gold teeth.

00:30:42He was like Goldie.

00:30:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:44He was Goldie's mate, basically.

00:30:46Goldie's mate.

00:30:49And he was sponsored by Stussy.

00:30:50He was a bit fucking dark, to be honest.

00:30:52He was a bit weird.

00:30:53I went out with him a few times.

00:30:54I was like, oh, God, my God.

00:30:56Anyway, I'm not telling you that.

00:30:58There's a good story with him, though, a really good story.

00:31:00I'll tell you in a minute.

00:31:01But Stussy fucking Darren.

00:31:04So, yeah, back in this studio where we built all these things, we built a pool room, we built a little office.

00:31:09So he's drawing in the office and he did artwork.

00:31:13He was just good at graffiti and artwork.

00:31:17I remember him, I remember being there while he drew the metal heads, you know, the Goldie record label design.

00:31:28I was there, I remember seeing him do that.

00:31:30Wow.

00:31:31You know, the first thing of that.

00:31:34So yeah, that's Stussy Darren.

00:31:35What were we saying?

00:31:36I was asking you, like, what was your first mix like?

00:31:41How did it feel?

00:31:42But also you were going to tell us... Well, you know, it's a blag.

00:31:45You're blagging it, aren't you?

00:31:46You're shitting yourself and you're blagging it.

00:31:47You're not quite sure.

00:31:49It's just all, you know, I've always done my mixes by, like, feeling.

00:31:52Yeah.

00:31:53And trying to, and, you know, you have to, like, sort of...

00:31:55But you have to listen to other stuff in that room on them speakers and try not to be lazy because you're easy.

00:32:03Especially if you're taking the drugs.

00:32:04When you're doing it all day and night, day and night and day and night.

00:32:08you know, non-stop sessions.

00:32:10Were you using compressors and outboard and stuff or were you just lagging it?

00:32:12Yeah, DSs, compressors, there was some, you know, little DBX things and, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

00:32:18And what was the story about Stussy Darren then?

00:32:21Oh, we had to go and pick up a sampler once, right?

00:32:24This is when we had to, we needed another sampler and we, you know, this is when people couldn't afford studios and everything and samplers were like, I don't know, I think they were like two and a half grand or something.

00:32:35And memory for them was like a degree.

00:32:37So we basically had to rent.

00:32:38one but we went we didn't rent one from like you know effects rentals or whoever what was your own dream hire it was uh go to some guy i can't it was east london i can't talk no i can't remember where it was but we took the van the studio van drove off

00:32:53Darren was driving, I was his little, you know, it was like me and him really.

00:32:57He was sort of the art guy in the studio for a bit, you know, he disappeared after a bit, but I stayed there for longer.

00:33:02But we were driving along in the van, got to pick up this sampler, right, and it was fucking brilliant.

00:33:07It was like lock, lock, lock, stocking two snots, smoking barrels vibes.

00:33:11It was a...

00:33:12He's eating a fucking sausage roll, right, and he's driving, and I'm with him smoking weed.

00:33:17You know, back then, I'd smoke weed on the bus, I'd smoke weed on the tube, I'd smoke weed in fucking Trafalgar Square.

00:33:24I don't give a fuck, right?

00:33:26And then we're driving along, and there's a zebra crossing that we don't quite see.

00:33:31It's going quite fast.

00:33:32It wasn't no cameras or anything then, you know, all this shit worrying about points and no bus lanes.

00:33:39And he...

00:33:41This fucking hard knock just basically thinks play chicken.

00:33:45And he just literally pulls out, just walks out onto the zebra crossing as we're like two, three foot away.

00:33:50And we have to screech really hard and just brake just before, like, let's literally stop at him.

00:33:56And he's just right in the centre of the van, you know, and we're looking at him through the window.

00:34:01And this fucking Ford blue NACA transit van, light blue and dented now.

00:34:06And there he is.

00:34:07And he's just horrible.

00:34:08And he just comes round, and he's fucking shouting something, and he comes round to the window to...

00:34:13He's got his...

00:34:13It's summer as well, by the way, and he's got his window... Old Darren, Stussy Darren, he's got his window wide open, and he's scrambling on this sausage roll, and this guy's just about to say...

00:34:21He opens his mouth, and Stussy Darren just spits this whole fucking sausage roll in this absolute psycho's face, right?

00:34:29And then puts his foot down on this transit van, right?

00:34:33Looking in the back mirror, because he's literally...

00:34:38like Rocky Balboa, in the middle of the fucking road, right?

00:34:42Coming, like, behind us, right?

00:34:44And then we get up to this red light and we have to stop.

00:34:47And basically, basically, I'm not going to go too mad, but he just basically gets to the handle as it turns amber and we bombed off.

00:34:54Harley's sort of grabbing the handle but we were too.

00:34:57He couldn't hold on any longer.

00:34:58And that was him.

00:34:59That was him by.

00:35:00But it was as fuck.

00:35:01I'll never.

00:35:01I'll just never forget that.

00:35:03Yeah.

00:35:04Never forget that shit, man.

00:35:06So, yeah.

00:35:06So, basically, we were there.

00:35:09And then that's basically that stew.

00:35:12It was brilliant times.

00:35:13I didn't realise.

00:35:15how much I was learning.

00:35:16Yeah, because it doesn't feel like you're learning.

00:35:18When you're that age, I think you're just so into it, you're having such a laugh, that you're just kind of learning where you go.

00:35:24It's all art, it's all just being at college.

00:35:26It's just like, exactly, it's just like, that was my college, making cups of tea and being in every different session, watching how the artists work.

00:35:35You're kind of getting off your nut.

00:35:36And helping them.

00:35:37And helping the people.

00:35:38Oh yeah, by the way, most of the artists couldn't use a sampler.

00:35:42yeah mostly artists they didn't have a mac then they couldn't use an atari they couldn't use a sampler we had to plug a desk in no we had to do everything like that you know tape do all the tape do you like atari st and yeah cubase yeah cubase yeah it's hard to see cuba it's a little dongle the freaking cord on track 16. and uh it was a one inch we had actually yeah 16 1 inch book

00:36:08So then, so that was sort of sour records.

00:36:11So then we moved.

00:36:12We ended up moving, this is where I met you, in Trident, we built, Trident wanted to suit themselves up, I don't know what happened, Dave Stone and Norton did the deal, because we basically lost the studio, you know, everything gets redeveloped.

00:36:25We had it cushioned, the next minute it's taken, you know, it's gone, we have to move out.

00:36:29It was gutted, man, it was so good.

00:36:31We had a car parked, it was just brilliant.

00:36:34And,

00:36:36Yeah, and then we had to go, so we basically got this studio.

00:36:38We built a basement in Trident, two studios in Strutton Ground, which is near Big Ben, near Victoria.

00:36:48Yeah, Scotland Yard, wasn't it?

00:36:49More near Big Ben.

00:36:50Yeah, right near New Scotland Yard, St. James's Park, you know.

00:36:55It was wicked, wasn't it, right next to Channel 4?

00:36:56Yeah, near Channel 4, next to a nice chip shop, market every day.

00:37:02So we've basically moved into the basement there, built a little live room, put the studio down there, had a bit more equipment then.

00:37:10And then it was just madness, started to get a bit madness there.

00:37:15It was getting a bit like their jungle was bigger then.

00:37:17And you know, we had just, it was.

00:37:20It was just loads of different sessions, loads of different lads and girls and people.

00:37:26And then I just learnt loads more.

00:37:28Still engineering.

00:37:29I've got a few more engineers.

00:37:31I was always on the night session, 10pm till 10am, 11am.

00:37:37Yeah, all night, that's how I worked.

00:37:39And then went home.

00:37:40Then I had a freaking kid, didn't I, at 21.

00:37:44And I think that's what made me never, like, that's what made me not give it up.

00:37:50All my other engineer mates back then just give it up.

00:37:52Yeah, yeah.

00:37:53Because the hours are just ridiculous.

00:37:55But for me, I'm just so strong.

00:37:58I don't know, not strong-willed, but...

00:38:01I'm the other freaking ox.

00:38:02I just do things in a... Yeah, exactly.

00:38:05I just was like, well, I didn't love it.

00:38:09It's not a job.

00:38:10It's a career.

00:38:11It's a life, isn't it?

00:38:13It's a career.

00:38:13It's a lifestyle.

00:38:14I was on the same path as you, just coming in a different angle.

00:38:18By the time you were... You were at trial, so I came in and worked.

00:38:21So I was down there in the basement with... No, it was...

00:38:25But when I came there, I think... Adam Hunter.

00:38:27I think it was like...

00:38:28So, yes.

00:38:29Was Bluey in that there when I came?

00:38:30No, no, Bluey had the other room at the back.

00:38:33Remember?

00:38:33He had his own little programming room.

00:38:35Incognito, Bluey, Jean-Paul Monique.

00:38:38He took me under his wing, basically, a little bit.

00:38:40But, yeah, basically, I... Andre Scheifex, he was our...

00:38:46He became an assistant who, basically, he was one of them assistants, you know, you can send it from out a mile.

00:38:51He was an assistant who was only there to make his own music.

00:38:54Yeah, yeah.

00:38:55You know, not like me, I was an assistant to be an engineer, to be a producer, to then... Then I'd become an artist after all of that.

00:39:03But, you know, I didn't want the fast route, even though, like, you know, I just wasn't talented enough, so I had to...

00:39:10I don't know, it just took me...

00:39:12So not talented enough, but just, it's a bad word, but just, it's just the way I work.

00:39:16I just like to, now I'll make a song without trying, just from all the experience.

00:39:23Yeah, exactly.

00:39:24Like learning the craft.

00:39:25And, you know, not being, I can play keyboards a bit now and stuff.

00:39:28But you didn't start off as a musician, did you?

00:39:30Exactly, but... A lot of lads start off as musicians like me.

00:39:33Exactly.

00:39:33Come the other way, isn't it?

00:39:34Yeah, exactly, but I did it more technical into, oh, I know.

00:39:38I was a very similar human.

00:39:38Someone asked me...

00:39:39So, I was a very similar human.

00:39:40I was a very similar human.

00:39:40I was a very similar human.

00:39:42could you engineer a record?

00:39:43And I was just like, oh yeah, yeah, I can do it.

00:39:44And I had no clue, and I remember going to my studio and just having to blag, sit behind like a, I think it was like an AMA board in other schools, and like blag out a mix of records, you know what I mean?

00:39:55I was very similar to you, but I really wanted to do it, I think it might be quite a northern way of working, or it was at the time, you just wanted to get in and work your way up.

00:40:02Well, you just want to fucking do your best, yeah, because you just think, my God, how am I in this position?

00:40:09Like, where have I come from?

00:40:10who's doing this at where I'm, what, my school or my friends or, you know what I mean, I'm, like, all of a sudden in, like, this... Yeah, you know, and this was all tape machines, this was all samplers, this was all the old...

00:40:23The end of the old days, I say, you know, that's how I say them days.

00:40:26Yeah, but it's a proper, like, lining-up tape machine.

00:40:28Yeah, so, yeah, but before we go up to Trident 2, into the big SSL, with the great live room with fucking amazing bands all the time, which you probably...

00:40:37I was so stoned over it.

00:40:39I can't remember half.

00:40:41Really, it's so vague.

00:40:43But basically, I was still downstairs engineering when we got into Trinity, and I remember a couple of sessions I just want to say about, really, just quickly.

00:40:54One was Melly Mel, White Lines.

00:40:56You know, White Lines.

00:40:57He came down because Keith LeBlanc and Doug Wimbish, they're the Sugar Hill gang.

00:41:03Somehow they used to be around a lot, Doug Wimbish.

00:41:06It was more the drummer.

00:41:07Somehow we had a connection.

00:41:08Anyway, he was always down in the studio and then he brought Melly Mel once.

00:41:13And I swear down, you know, we used to do UK hip-hop a lot down there.

00:41:17You know, I met Skinny Man, Roots Maneuver.

00:41:19He said, you know, all them lot.

00:41:22But this is Melly Mel, right?

00:41:24I'm not getting, it's nothing, I mean, you know, Roots, they used to do.

00:41:28one takes and stuff but this Melly Mel man honest we got Keith LeBanc you know we did we got the music up by the time I got the music and I'm running the beat he was writing lyrics

00:41:40and then by the time I got the headphones balanced, I swear the lyrics were written and then he went in the vocal booth, melly mell, and I went are you ready and I pressed record and then he just went in and then he stopped after the first verse I think and I went back and he just went back to the beginning and then he did it in one go

00:42:00and it was just nailed and like do you know how many sessions of the uh i'd been doing like trying to get some sort of flow or vibe you know like yeah and it's just like what the thought these guys have been doing it for since the 70s and you know you know you know americans are like man they're just on it with that just oh my god the timing and the and even you know i can't remember the lyrics or whatever but just every just it was just like oh my god

00:42:26This was fucking ace.

00:42:28Yeah, it's mad when you see... Fuck's sake, this saves some... Yeah, exactly.

00:42:32He just wrote it down and he's just done, rewind and go again, done.

00:42:37That's how the Jamaican boys do it.

00:42:39The reggae boys can do that, do you know what I mean?

00:42:42Some of them can...

00:42:43They'll sing the song just from a big fucking spliff, get the vibes going and the lyrics just come.

00:42:50To the rhythm.

00:42:51Yeah, exactly.

00:42:53And it's the same with the American boys, you know, black guys.

00:42:56It's like that, you know.

00:42:59A little bit more maybe put to, you know.

00:43:01But no, it's the same shit.

00:43:03Yeah.

00:43:04In a different format.

00:43:05I remember.

00:43:06So how did you end up up there at Trident then?

00:43:08So.

00:43:09Because when I first came, you were, I think you were assisting at Trident.

00:43:12Hold on.

00:43:13So let me quickly tell you one little, one more little funny story.

00:43:16Shy FX, Andre, he was the assistant.

00:43:19As I said, he didn't really, he just wanted to be there.

00:43:21He'd done Gangster Kid and he sampled.

00:43:26I want to be a gangster what's a gangster gangster what did he Goodfellas he sampled Goodfellas very clever you know what I mean did very simple I'm like what I don't get it you know but pretty much kicked off that track but anyway he was the assistant I said to him and so I was an engineer he was the assistant I was like hoover up

00:43:46And he just... And he fucking wouldn't hoover up, right?

00:43:51So me and him went face to face.

00:43:53What?

00:43:54Not hoover up.

00:43:55Fucking hoover up.

00:43:56What are you here for?

00:43:57I'm not fucking hoovering up.

00:43:59And I've done my time hoovering up.

00:44:02You know, and he just wouldn't hoover up.

00:44:05Because, you know, I also need a blow up after that, you know.

00:44:08Yeah, yeah.

00:44:09He's not going to do the hoovering.

00:44:10He wouldn't do the hoovering.

00:44:11Well, that was a quick little funny story.

00:44:13Yeah, me and him face to face.

00:44:14Wouldn't do the hoovering.

00:44:15We'll do the fucking evening.

00:44:17And right, oh yeah, one more little cool story about Trident.

00:44:22The studio.

00:44:26There was a, so that first day in the studio, there was a CD, there was only one sample CD.

00:44:32So everything went to that, you know, as well.

00:44:34So we had a couple of G, I can't remember, was it zero G?

00:44:38Sample, a sample CD on a DAC, but we had one CD.

00:44:42And it was dangerous.

00:44:43It was black with red writing saying dangerous, right?

00:44:46It was one of the first sample CDs ever made, I think.

00:44:49That's my guess, right?

00:44:50Because we had, you know, we used to...

00:44:52I used to have to go down to Turnkey.

00:44:54I used to have to go down to Turnkey when I was an assistant there with a bag of weed in a bag, hand it over to one of the lads who we knew, who's still one of my best mates, Chris.

00:45:05Go on, Chris Stevens.

00:45:07All the way in fricking Brisbane.

00:45:09And what's his fricking audio?

00:45:12Oh, I'll remember it in a minute.

00:45:14He's like still sells equipment, but he's self-employed.

00:45:18Anyway, he used to give him a bag of weed and then he'd give us darts, leads, things what we needed for the studio, you know, around the back door.

00:45:25Yeah, I used to have to go around the back door in like half an hour.

00:45:28Yeah, and swap it for weed and stuff.

00:45:30So, you know, but yeah, so back at the back of this dangerous CD.

00:45:34Sorry if I get taken.

00:45:36That was just sat there for years, right?

00:45:39And MJ Cole came in, right?

00:45:41So he used to come down the studio.

00:45:42And Elizabeth Troy, who I said I knew from day one, and she's still one of my best mates.

00:45:48And she met MJ Cole in the studio, obviously, when she used to come down.

00:45:53And he started coming down there.

00:45:54He was like a...

00:45:55to me like one of these dinner jazz piano players, that's what he used to sort of do on his get extra, I don't know if it was his full time job or extra cash or whatever but he was coming out of the studio right and he picked up this fucking CD right and I swear down on my life the next minute he wrote Sincere have you heard Sincere?

00:46:13It's like a big tune from MJ Cole right and it's all this vocals, copyright free

00:46:22It's all this copy, this hit tune, basically.

00:46:26Everyone thinks it's Elizabeth.

00:46:27A lot of people think it's Elizabeth Troy who sings this song because she did the video, but really she didn't.

00:46:34It was all off this sample CD.

00:46:37I was so jealous.

00:46:40I was like, what?

00:46:41How is he six years before you with this CD?

00:46:45Thought, what the fuck are these daft vocals?

00:46:47And there he goes, just like, you know, made this cool garage, this amazing garage tune with these vocals, you know, and it still is a tune, still is, you know, and same with Shy FX turned into, you know, and the next minute he's done original Nutter, you know.

00:47:01And I didn't, I wasn't, Chris, I think, no, Adam, he was about four years older than me, he mixed that, but I recorded the vocal upstairs in Trident when they redid it.

00:47:14They did the 12-inch, but then they redid it, did it a better mix.

00:47:18Shyfex wanted a better mix and the UK Apache wanted to re-sing it, so I remember.

00:47:26Recording that up in Trident with the better mic and all that.

00:47:30So I was involved in that, but I didn't bloody mix it, which was gutting, because that, again, is one of them tunes, you know, that's still...

00:47:37Anywhere you go, if that drops, that's like a fucking tune, you know?

00:47:41It's such a tune.

00:47:42Anyway, so we were all involved, you know.

00:47:44It was all in our... that time down there.

00:47:48And then, basically, I'd had a kid, Blue.

00:47:53Girlfriend was an absolute fucking nightmare and told me to get her life sorted out.

00:48:03So then I had to sort of step up and I was like, you know what, I'm sick of this unprofessional shit and this fucking...

00:48:08Half-assed you know half our studio, but I was looking at project.

00:48:12Yeah I was looking at I was looking at the SSL going on the live room going I want it's time for that now come on, so then I sacrificed engineering Do you come yeah to become a professional assistant?

00:48:24hip-hop

00:48:26So that's when, you know, that's when that started.

00:48:30We had one live room.

00:48:31We had eight U67s, U87s, U47s.

00:48:33The Kia was the best one, eh?

00:48:37Yeah, we had a couple of, well, we had, sorry, one live room.

00:48:40We had one big live room.

00:48:41where we had a grand piano and we you know you could do rock drums in there and then i think was there a glass room at the side of that there's a little yeah there's slit yeah and then we had this little wooden room at the right of the control room when you're in the control looking at the mixing desk through the glass window was the big live room where you could see the other bit and then the other to the right was uh it was through two doors what you couldn't see in that room and that was wicked wooden and really dead and then there was that um

00:49:11Little back room where the orb used to have a little studio.

00:49:14No, no, it was incognito.

00:49:15Bluey had it.

00:49:16Well, then Bluey must have moved after that.

00:49:18No, no, no.

00:49:18Bluey had it all the time.

00:49:19His son, Dan, used to use it a lot.

00:49:21And then I used to go in a lot.

00:49:23Where was the orb?

00:49:23Mate, I used to be assisting.

00:49:25In the end, I was like assisting and then going in, making... God, it's like, oh, this session is shite.

00:49:31Shout me when you need me.

00:49:32Because basically, Normus, remember, Normus took over at the end.

00:49:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:35But we'll get to that.

00:49:36Thank you.

00:49:37But sang she took over and then I was like this is not worth being here man this music's jokes And then that's when I was like fuck this and then I went and it was closing down.

00:49:47So we heard Turned into flats didn't it?

00:49:49Yeah, I was at Trident first before it shut down My first session was Iron Maiden with Andy Riley.

00:49:55Yeah, I didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing I didn't have a clue.

00:49:58I was I've gone to a gig the night before I remember at the time

00:50:02I remember meeting you in the reception.

00:50:04You know, an ex-girlfriend.

00:50:04And I had to suss you out.

00:50:07And I said, yeah, he's got it.

00:50:09He's got it, me and them, the bredrins.

00:50:12Straight away, you know people, don't you?

00:50:13You just know straight away, don't you?

00:50:15Yeah, you do.

00:50:15Oh, it's like, oh, no.

00:50:18There were some stories that tried them.

00:50:20You were probably off your nut most of the time.

00:50:24Yeah, I was pretty high.

00:50:25I was part of Skid and Iron Maiden and loads of metal bands.

00:50:28But, you know, we used to have to write every patch bit, every plug-in, every tune, be there like a little gimp, ready just to think before they thought, you know, that's how you were trained.

00:50:40And then flood it with cups of tea, the studio, make sure everyone...

00:50:45Tea all the time.

00:50:46Is that where Flood got his...

00:50:47Yeah, Flood used to come there.

00:50:49What did I do with him?

00:50:50The Raincoats album there and something else.

00:50:53So I assisted him, yeah, exactly.

00:50:54And he said about that.

00:50:55He started off in Trident or something.

00:50:58Trident was a good studio.

00:50:59I remember Angie and all her mates and all the Page Three girls, remember?

00:51:02Yeah, Kathy Lloyd.

00:51:03Kathy Lloyd and that.

00:51:05And they sent me to the shop and gave me a load of cash like you and this.

00:51:08I go get a load of champagne.

00:51:09I was in the shop and then all the Page Three girls walked in and they were all like, oh, nice.

00:51:13So much money then.

00:51:15So much wasted money as well.

00:51:17God almighty.

00:51:17I remember how long cabs used to wait for people.

00:51:20Oh man, cabs, cabs, cabs.

00:51:22The studio must have come home.

00:51:23Right, yeah.

00:51:24Drugs everywhere.

00:51:25We used to charge 50 quid for that.

00:51:29No, but you know, it was like ridiculous, you know, like what the fucking, you know, like what, how much do you reckon the studio?

00:51:35So to me, I think it was what, 600 quid a day.

00:51:38And then the engineer was 250.

00:51:41Then, you know, we, well, we were included in the fucking studio.

00:51:45We were included in the 600 quid.

00:51:48How many times did Andy say to you, well, you can use the studio in downtime.

00:51:51And then downtime would come, oh, can you clean the walls and do the garden?

00:51:54Yeah, exactly.

00:51:56Because, yeah, exactly, because there was only one good desk and one studio, even though it was a two, three live room, but there was one desk, so there was literally no downtime.

00:52:05I'd finish a session with one band, you know, Interstellar were there from Manchester.

00:52:11Was it Interstellar, remember them, and Stella the Girl?

00:52:14I remember them, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:15Remember them, they were good, and you remember, who else used to go in?

00:52:21The Doves.

00:52:22Oh, yeah, you remember them.

00:52:23Yeah, yeah.

00:52:25Was that Swan?

00:52:26See it's all fucked up for me.

00:52:27That was Trident.

00:52:29The Doves was Trident, yeah.

00:52:31I was good mates with them.

00:52:32I remember fucking the Doves, right?

00:52:34I remember like whatever year later they blew up.

00:52:37And then I go to Thailand, right?

00:52:41And I go, I'm all around Thailand and I've gone...

00:52:43this island i think it was course i'm not far from bangkok silver summit beach oh hell man this would have been 94. it's probably not 95 96 or something and then there was it there he was wherever his name is from the lead singer from the dubs writing his second album on the beach yeah we're hanging out for ages yeah i haven't seen him since but uh

00:53:07Yeah, Trident, yeah, it was brilliant, man.

00:53:09And then you, I remember you going from Trident to Swan Yard, and then I followed you to Swan Yard, remember?

00:53:14Yeah, I know.

00:53:15Because there was a link, hold on, there was a link with Trident to Swan Yard because of the mad owners, Ray Hamilton, we have to mention these, respected Ray Hamilton and Margarita.

00:53:26Yeah, they owned Swan Yard, didn't they?

00:53:28Yeah, they owned Swan Yard and they owned, they used to own Swan Yard, but it got bought by that Irish guy, remember?

00:53:33It was a whole...

00:53:35That was, I think that studio was just bought by him to like.

00:53:40blag it, wasn't it?

00:53:41Yeah.

00:53:41I'd like to put the flush money... Was it Keefe for you, though?

00:53:44Or was it Margarita?

00:53:45Yeah, no, it was Keefe.

00:53:46Keefe, yeah.

00:53:47Keefe was managing money.

00:53:47The Scouser, Keefe, I had an interview with him.

00:53:50So, yeah, so, yeah, I jumped to there and I had an interview with him and then I had a job.

00:53:56It started June, the summer, and obviously I've gone to Glastonbury and the first day back, the first day at Swan Yard to start after I'd got the job.

00:54:06So I'd had a kid, didn't tell him I had a kid in this interview, you know, I didn't say nothing because of the hours you do, you know.

00:54:11Keep your mouth shut and then tell him once I'm in.

00:54:15And then I went to Glastonbury, didn't I?

00:54:18And then I fucking, at the start, the first session, the first day of the studio was...

00:54:26in Swan Yard, it was the Monday after Glastonbury, so I fucking hitchhiked back Sunday night, got home off my napper, started with no sleep, with Dido.

00:54:39Like, that was the first session I did on the first day.

00:54:42We've got a funny story about Dido and you.

00:54:44What's the first time?

00:54:45It wasn't Life for Rent, what was the first one?

00:54:47No, well, that was...

00:54:48So we were there, basically, we were...

00:54:49Right from the start.

00:54:50Yeah, yeah, exactly, when the demos were made.

00:54:53So I met Rollo, I met Dido, Sister Bliss.

00:54:56So Dido was singing on Faithless.

00:54:58Rollo on Faithless and all them had a studio up in the attic.

00:55:01Yeah.

00:55:02You know, and then it was Matty, the drummer, Skinny, Pauline Taylor, Paulie, Rob D. That was a little bit later, but that's the first... Yeah, exactly, and that was the first day.

00:55:12It was like Skinny and Dave Nally and all that.

00:55:15But that was a bit better, in a way, even though there was a more...

00:55:18There was more engineers, there was assistants, it was a lot more oiled.

00:55:22It was a lot more organised.

00:55:24Yeah, but we forget to say Trident 2, it was great, but it was literally a fucking nightmare for us because every lead didn't work, patches didn't work.

00:55:33Everything was mental, you know, on the technical side, but it was a vibe.

00:55:38there was a fucking wicked vibe and the sound was great in there and yeah I'll let me quickly I used to like do beginning of my hempolics like before you know trying to make rhythms then and on the downtown Trident on their big massive oh the speaker's dying no it wasn't dying and I used to blow them the tweeters

00:55:59I used to blow the tweeters and then not tell the next band, say fuck all, because the next day it would be like, yeah, I remember, and then it was my mate, I've become really good friends, Ron Aslan, I think it was like Baba Marl and, what was the session then?

00:56:15I think that's when Brian Eno came down.

00:56:17and did some stuff on the Babamal album with this engineer, Ron Aslan, who's still one of my good friends.

00:56:23And what was my point?

00:56:26And I didn't say nothing about the speaker, because I got told if I blew any more, you pay for it.

00:56:32And I was like, I can't fucking pay for it.

00:56:34I've got a kid.

00:56:35I'm on 50 quid a day, by the way.

00:56:37Yeah, I need to tell you all that.

00:56:38We were on £50 cash.

00:56:39Do you know what I mean?

00:56:41And we were doing 12 to 16, 17-hour days.

00:56:44We were like starting before anyone else.

00:56:46and finishing up and going home at four and we'd be back in at ten.

00:56:49Yeah exactly so you'd be that sofa I used to sleep on that sofa upstairs in that you know in that pool room no it wasn't in the pool room the sofa was in the tv room I had enough wanks in that room.

00:57:02I've seen some stuff going on.

00:57:03Seven in the morning, wax!

00:57:03I'm not going to say who, I've seen some stuff.

00:57:05Bare arses flapping about.

00:57:06Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:57:07I know.

00:57:08We can't say about... We can't say who it is.

00:57:09Yeah.

00:57:10We can't say who it is.

00:57:11We've seen pop stars getting sucked.

00:57:15We've seen...

00:57:16I've seen pool balls in condoms stuck up Rossi's fannies.

00:57:22wannabe Radiohead Oxford bands.

00:57:24I can't remember your name, but you fucking know who you are.

00:57:27And they had so, you know, million... We've had millionaire managers with no... You know, bands you've got nowhere to like.

00:57:34Bands who were somebody fighting and arguing miserable cunts.

00:57:39Oh, man.

00:57:39We've seen it.

00:57:41Gangster-type guys coming in.

00:57:43What was the band who Flooded who I worked on?

00:57:45And it was Knights of Reb.

00:57:47And I was on the Assisting the Knights of Ebb album with Flood.

00:57:52And these two were, like, fighting, crying.

00:57:56It was mental.

00:57:59No, yeah, that was just mental.

00:58:02Crying and fighting all through this session, man.

00:58:04It was insane.

00:58:05I remember being on a session with...

00:58:06Flood used to look through, because there was glass over the mixing desk.

00:58:11So you could see what the eyes...

00:58:13He was always reading rooms, you know, that's what he taught me.

00:58:16I can't be asked to do that anymore.

00:58:18But yeah, talking to you to read the room, be alert of what's everyone thinking and doing, you know.

00:58:23But mostly people were bumped up.

00:58:24Because even the top people were still wondering what they're thinking and want.

00:58:27Yeah.

00:58:28Because it's, you know, you know that.

00:58:29It's like you're sort of like colouring in a half-done picture.

00:58:35a lot of the time aren't you when you're a producer engineer people come in a lot of time people don't really know what they're doing at all like they've got a rough idea and they might have a little outline of a tune rough demos or some people have just fucking got the song nailed some people just come in and they play it off or you're just there for weeks I've been there weeks on one song I've been there a day and it's done

00:58:58You know, there's no rules.

00:59:00That's all I know is there's no rules.

00:59:02And it just ends up being a tune, doesn't it, eventually?

00:59:04Yeah, and the music industry is nasty.

00:59:08And, you know, you meet people, you think, oh, my God, these are going to be amazing.

00:59:12It's like, oh, what?

00:59:13Yeah.

00:59:13Fuck's sake, these are nutters.

00:59:15They're weird.

00:59:17And then you meet some people and you're like, I remember when I was working, I remember Portishead, I was like, oh man, that's going to be a weird session.

00:59:22Yeah, we can't jump to Swan Yard quite yet, you know what I mean?

00:59:25We'll go that later on.

00:59:26No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:59:27Yes, their Portishead was in Swan Yard, isn't it?

00:59:30Yeah.

00:59:30But we'll jump between the both, you know what I mean?

00:59:33Because it's all sort of one thing in a way for us, you know?

00:59:36Yeah.

00:59:37But, you know, it's the assisting days.

00:59:40And their assisting days was like...

00:59:42hard work man and it wasn't like even i think 115 hours i used to put on a sheet a week you know can you do that that was you know that you had to sort out everyone's fucking taxes you had to sort out everyone's food yeah you had to clean this sort out and clean the studio clean the desk i remember like we used to clean the desk copying the funny story about copying that yeah yeah we'll get to copying the dots with me in a minute the one big mistake i ever did well i've done a few more but yeah that was a classic

01:00:11So, yeah, so, Swan Yard, that's when you really kind of broke back into engineering.

01:00:16Remember, because you were doing a lot of Faithless sessions.

01:00:20I was doing the bands, like Lodger and stuff.

01:00:23I ended up being in Lodger.

01:00:24So, this is when we first started at Swan Yard.

01:00:27And you were doing a lot of...

01:00:30How did you end up...

01:00:32The orb gave me my first ever chance, by the way.

01:00:34Respect to the orb.

01:00:36Oh, yeah, it's tried and true.

01:00:37The two Andes, Thomas Felton, and what was the road he called?

01:00:42He was amazing from Hull.

01:00:43Fuck's sake.

01:00:45He was always on the sessions.

01:00:48Orange hair.

01:00:49Punk, you know, punk.

01:00:51But basically they believed in me as an assistant.

01:00:56But everyone did because you had talent.

01:00:57Yeah, and I used to go off with them and do little song projects with them and help them and do stuff.

01:01:03Because I used to do rhythms and always into making drums and bass.

01:01:07You were always like pissing out with samples and effects.

01:01:09Yeah, exactly.

01:01:10Always with the effects.

01:01:11You'd be just getting like new effects came out.

01:01:13Hours and hours of that effects and just experimenting.

01:01:16I was brought up with Brian Eno, music for airports in my house.

01:01:19You know what I mean?

01:01:21Just mad sound Yeah You know Jeff I can't keep I haven't even remembered Jefferson Airplane Oh my god I used to love Jefferson Airplane When I was a kid And when I was tripping You know I was like Oh my Them lads Them Grey Slick And them Them guys Were just What orb track Did you mix in Because I remember You were pretty tight With the orb lads Weren't you I was very tight With them Yeah exactly Yeah and they used to Take me off to studios And then I used to Yeah And I was like

01:01:47I can't remember what I did.

01:01:48But then we all went to Swan Yard and that was back to assisting again, weren't we?

01:01:52But the Swan Yard was pretty good at letting you do it.

01:01:55Yeah, because that had two studios, remember?

01:01:57Yeah, it had one and two.

01:01:58So I was in studio two, you'd be in studio... Yeah, exactly.

01:02:01And we'd help each other at the end of the night, zeroing the desks and fucking... We'd end up writing songs after sessions at three in the morning, wouldn't we?

01:02:07Yeah, exactly.

01:02:08So I was doing a lot of bands and I remember doing that album... You helped me with the Hempolics.

01:02:10Yeah, in studio two and you were doing a lot of stuff in...

01:02:13I was doing guitar, you know, your guitarist, Mad.

01:02:16And then you started, so you were working, I remember Dido and that being around because I played some sessions of guitar.

01:02:22Yeah, I was an assistant to Dido, always got home in them lot, you know, and Rollo.

01:02:27And was it the Dusty record that you engineered?

01:02:29Or was it Rob D?

01:02:31No, Dusty was the first album I ever did.

01:02:33Yeah, but Rob D, yeah, exactly, Rob D was the chance.

01:02:35Rob D gave you another chance, he gave you another shot before that.

01:02:37So yeah, so basically when we were at Swan Yard, there was like four assistants.

01:02:42And three engineers, Nick, Gertz, you know, and Rollo Adner.

01:02:47So Rollo Ad, Gertz, Phil Brown and... Phil Brown he'd used for recording.

01:02:52And then who else did he use?

01:02:54Phil Brown, Nick and Gertz.

01:02:55That was it, them three.

01:02:57So it was like...

01:02:59But I always used to get called in.

01:03:01Even if I was assistant on the other session, I'd get called in to help Phil Brown or even Nick maybe to do...

01:03:08a wilder effect.

01:03:10Yeah, yeah.

01:03:10Because I was out the box.

01:03:12I'd EQ the input, EQ the outputs.

01:03:16Feed it back.

01:03:17Feed, you know what I mean?

01:03:18Yeah, exactly.

01:03:18And just create things, you know.

01:03:20Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:21That's why Rollo ended up, you know, loving me because I'd create sections and scenes.

01:03:26make these JV-1080 sounds sound much more livelier and more ecstasy because I was brought up on E and acid and I know how to fucking get them hairs tingling with sonics, you know.

01:03:39Exactly.

01:03:39Colouring it in.

01:03:40I love colouring in shit and sections, you know.

01:03:43That was mad because our careers kind of went off on tangents, but parallel then, because I was...

01:03:48But still, you know, remembering kick has to be like this, because it's different music you're doing as well.

01:03:53Different EQs, different compressors.

01:03:56Even the compressors and stuff are different.

01:03:58That's why you have a different energy.

01:04:00Because, honestly, you just...

01:04:03There's stuff I can't mix.

01:04:04I just can't.

01:04:05I don't get it.

01:04:06And there's stuff that people just get.

01:04:09And it's all to do with your past.

01:04:11It's all to do with what you brought up with.

01:04:13Yeah, yeah.

01:04:14The music you listen to.

01:04:15Exactly.

01:04:16And that's what you know how to do.

01:04:18You know what I mean?

01:04:19I know how to do hip-hop beats.

01:04:21I know how to mix house music in a way.

01:04:23You know what I mean?

01:04:24I know how to do jungle.

01:04:26And I know how to do...

01:04:27world's music because i remember you got hold of the fireworks remember tc electro yeah i still got it here it is up here and you did that you were playing with some mad drum effects and rob d was like oh i love that remember and then he got you to do that too yeah yeah so rob d yeah so so yeah so basically nick was moving house gert's the pet shop boys had been in

01:04:47with Rollo, remember the Pet Shop Boy?

01:04:49They just fell asleep all fucking day.

01:04:53Fell asleep all day, then Limo came at 6.30 and took their precious selves home.

01:04:59And then, well, you know, yeah, exactly.

01:05:03And what was the point?

01:05:05Yeah, so yeah, and then Gertz was with them doing something somewhere else, and Phil Brown was doing something.

01:05:10And then I just went...

01:05:11And I think Michelle helped me as well.

01:05:13She was good, Michelle.

01:05:14Michelle was lovely, yeah.

01:05:15She pushed us forward, didn't she?

01:05:16She did, like, get us in.

01:05:17Exactly, yeah.

01:05:18Michelle and James and Michelle's niece.

01:05:22Oh, she was lovely.

01:05:24I loved her.

01:05:26Come to us in a sec.

01:05:27Anyway, so I said, give me a chance.

01:05:30to Rollo, because Rob D was this crazy eccentric inner...

01:05:37He used to wind us up.

01:05:38He did Carly Minogun shit, you know what I mean?

01:05:40He wasn't just anybody.

01:05:42He was like this piano player, mad little eccentric.

01:05:45Like a kid with his shoelaces undone.

01:05:47Do you know what I mean?

01:05:48Like he's old, Matt.

01:05:48He's like grown up.

01:05:50Big guy.

01:05:51Big Australian guy.

01:05:52You know what I mean?

01:05:53Like it's like, but he was weird, but I loved him.

01:05:56I never, like Rob D, I couldn't tell if ever if he's been serious or a lot of joking.

01:06:00I just loved him.

01:06:01I could never tell.

01:06:02He's fucking ace, don't get me wrong.

01:06:03And he could give us a shot.

01:06:04He really, I played a guitar member on that track later on.

01:06:08When you engineered it and mixed it and I played guitars on it.

01:06:10So he did Club to Death.

01:06:12That's what his big tune was on Ninja Tunes.

01:06:15Club to Death and it was on every fucking advert.

01:06:18So Rollo signed him to Cheeky Records because he knew him because Rollo before he went off before he came to England he did A Year Out or whatever, came back to England and started house music, he did that what was that first tune Rollo did again?

01:06:33Oh they did that Red Jerry tune was it?

01:06:35Is it Red Jerry?

01:06:36No.

01:06:36No no that Felix, not your Rollo.

01:06:37Felix the house cat, yeah exactly he was involved in that somehow, Rollo, that was his first sort of core production.

01:06:42He engineered it instead or something Yeah exactly and um

01:06:46What am I saying?

01:06:48This fucking spliff's knocking me here.

01:06:51No, so, yeah.

01:06:53So we get into, like, Rob D. Yeah, so, yeah, before he went and did that, Felix Housecat Rollo went to Australia, met on a, like, hikey thing, you know, doing a backpacking thing, and met Rob D. And started doing music with him over in Australia, yeah.

01:07:08So he knew him before he did...

01:07:10He knew him before he did, you know, Club to Death.

01:07:14So now, years later, Rollo's now, you know, he's got his champion records, Mel Medallion, I can't forget Mel, yeah, Mel, Mel, Give Rollo, Cheeky Records was like a sub-label before, you know.

01:07:27Yeah, champion sort of, he kind of, he sort of like, Mel's quite responsible for a lot of people, man.

01:07:32Bloody Will Smith.

01:07:34Yeah, signed Will Smith, and like, Madonna and all these people.

01:07:36Walking up Holloway Road, Will Smith, and, you know, back in the day.

01:07:41Anyway, yeah, and...

01:07:44He used to give Rollo all the money to play for all his studio time.

01:07:47I think Mel really believed in everyone who he signed.

01:07:50I wish I had that now with my band.

01:07:51We'll get to how the music industry has gone daft.

01:08:01This was the good old days.

01:08:02Vinyl was selling still.

01:08:03Tapes were there.

01:08:04And you could get an advance.

01:08:05And you could live on it.

01:08:06You could survive on a fucking 10 grand.

01:08:08You'd have like three 10 grand advances and they'd have a little deal here and a little deal there.

01:08:12If you were clever, there's still people who've gotten robbed.

01:08:14Yeah.

01:08:15Like Stone Roses, like, you know, loads of people still got hammered.

01:08:18But you could be.

01:08:19I think you could work in music, couldn't you?

01:08:20We could work in music.

01:08:22We weren't rich, but we could work in music.

01:08:23Yeah, exactly.

01:08:25So anyway, Rob D, you mixed...

01:08:27Rob D, so yeah, that weekend he wanted to do something and Rollo still sort of did weekends then.

01:08:33He was still going out with Blissy and...

01:08:37He was doing weekends still.

01:08:38So yeah, Rob D wanted to do the weekends.

01:08:40We got in and I got my chance and that was it.

01:08:44See you later, Gert.

01:08:44See you later, Nick.

01:08:48See you later.

01:08:50Phil Brown, not see you later, but I got probably... Phil Brown was doing the recordings.

01:08:54You asked Rollo, now I reckon I got 95%, 90% easy of the work after that day.

01:08:59that weekend because well then straight across our live record i don't know what i just live ended up the place a little bliving a bit slow i was a bit slow you used to say like let's go london let's go london every session but i remember that because i ended up on that um

01:09:18That was pretty early days and I'd been playing with Lodger and then I think you were doing Assisted on Dido and I Assisted on Dido and then that.

01:09:24Yeah.

01:09:24And all that came from Dido.

01:09:25Remember Eminem?

01:09:25Yeah, yeah, that blew it up.

01:09:27Eminem, Next Minute, yeah, exactly.

01:09:28Dido was...

01:09:28But then how did we get to Dusted?

01:09:29Because that was pretty soon.

01:09:30That was like right then, wasn't it?

01:09:31The Dusted record.

01:09:32Rollo had to do a Dusted record to get... Yeah, was that with Gobeat?

01:09:36Yeah.

01:09:36I think he had a deal where he had to do an album and he needed to get it done.

01:09:40I don't know if Rollo can tell you.

01:09:42It was with Ferdy and we had like... Dido ended up going out with... A couple of months, remember?

01:09:47You were engineering it, I was assisting on it, I'm playing all the guitar, and we just get smashed every night and just fuck around doing... Rollo just used to let us have free reign of mad effects and stuff.

01:09:57Yeah.

01:09:58And then rain is in.

01:09:59And then they come in the next day and go, what the fuck have you two idiots been doing?

01:10:02Or like, no, this is amazing, or yeah.

01:10:04Or yeah, like, I'll have that, but that's shit.

01:10:06But then you start knowing what they want and how they work, and then, you know.

01:10:10But that album was great because we were just in the studio for three months together, weren't we?

01:10:14Yeah.

01:10:15And I'd be playing guitar one minute and then we'd be getting vocals and putting them on cassette and putting them back in the computer.

01:10:22Yeah.

01:10:22Yeah, exactly, and it was tape machines still.

01:10:25Yeah, lining up tape machines, making cuts of T. Yeah.

01:10:28Plugging in, mate.

01:10:30Rollo used Creator, didn't he?

01:10:32E-Magic, Logic, when it went downwards.

01:10:35And we had to plug...

01:10:35Remember the start of every session, you'd be patching fucking MIDI cables for about a week?

01:10:40Yeah.

01:10:40Remember, everything was... And I bought an Akai MPC-2000 when it came out.

01:10:44I can't remember what year it came out.

01:10:46and that's when I got my, it was my first ever thing I ever bought because I couldn't afford anything because I had a kid and it was just shit money.

01:10:53And that's when you did the Hem Pollocks, so at the end of them sessions.

01:10:55Yeah, exactly, the MPC was the start of the Hem Pollocks.

01:10:58I remember that, we'd do sessions, we'd be recording with people.

01:11:02poorly or whoever, I remember.

01:11:03And then we'd stay in all night because we'd get downtime.

01:11:06Yeah.

01:11:07Like, from three in the morning, we'd be there till four or five in the morning.

01:11:09Well, they've done it, and it's a new song, so we can just mess around because the next song's a new song.

01:11:14That brings me to the assistant on Dido fucking story.

01:11:18Oh, right, yeah.

01:11:18With the dance.

01:11:20Yeah, so one of the worst things I ever did as an assistant, you would, uh, was, I was so tired.

01:11:26That was a luxury.

01:11:27They had these shitty Sony black, them little black...

01:11:32DATs.

01:11:33Two of them.

01:11:33Two of them together, but we only had one DAT machine in the studio, and it was just like we had to get the master, come out, put it into the top DAT, the bottom DAT had the blank one, and then you'd record.

01:11:46So, you know, I'm getting feisty, I know this job really well now, I want to be a fucking engineer.

01:11:52And why aren't I, you know, until the day when the weekend happened.

01:11:55Yeah, yeah, so just before.

01:11:56Yeah, it was before that, and then... You know, you're like, fucking hell, is this going on forever?

01:12:02When will I ever have this break I need, you know?

01:12:05I just think it's weird how things just happen.

01:12:07It is weird how things happen.

01:12:09Anyway, and, you know, as I say, I've always met and worked with the people who...

01:12:15It's like you're meant to have worked with them.

01:12:18Yeah, yeah.

01:12:18You're meant to have met them.

01:12:20You know, it's meant to have met Rollo.

01:12:21It's meant to have met Bluey.

01:12:22It's meant to have met The Orb.

01:12:23Yeah, yeah.

01:12:24You know, it's meant to have met Norton.

01:12:26Yeah, exactly, and Rob Dee.

01:12:29You're just meant to have met...

01:12:30It's just weird.

01:12:33Anyway, so Dido's first album.

01:12:39um it's gone to that it's five four in the morning i've i've i've got a little break down the studio before you yeah that's as well yeah because we used to use it we just went yeah exactly we just went okay this is the end of the session yeah break down the studio it's a new thing tomorrow and uh so we just tore down the leads zeroed everything zeroed the desk i think we zeroed like even some effects and stuff you know like eqs and compressors

01:13:02Because we were that anal and we used to put a little masking tape on stuff right in the channel.

01:13:08You know, so the engineer knew the fuck out.

01:13:11Right now, if somebody starts naming shit, I'd be like, what are you doing?

01:13:13What a waste of time.

01:13:14I know all that's on that.

01:13:15Yeah.

01:13:16Come on.

01:13:17You know what I mean?

01:13:18And, you know, sometimes you have to say as well, back then, engineers didn't want to really teach you much.

01:13:25No, they were fucking tight.

01:13:26There wasn't many engineers.

01:13:27Some were good.

01:13:28You had to just sit quiet and fucking watch.

01:13:31Yeah.

01:13:32You know, and then, but, you know, it's like you wanted hands-on.

01:13:35Who was it, which engineer was it who was an absolute cunt to you about coffee?

01:13:39He said you made that too quick.

01:13:42There was an engineer, a producer who, I was stood behind him, about four foot behind him, leaning against the back wall, and he was on the...

01:13:50There's the desk in Studio One, wasn't it?

01:13:52Yeah, in one.

01:13:53Looking through the live room, and then there's a step, and then all the outboard was on a step behind.

01:13:58Yeah, yeah.

01:13:59Foot high, nice carpet curling round, and then it was all the outboard.

01:14:03So the engineer just spun round.

01:14:05Yeah, just tweaked all the stuff.

01:14:07And then there's all a desk above your head.

01:14:09It's like the head.

01:14:11neck level wasn't it or head level and then that's where the producer would sit on the star trek chairs at the top yeah and then there was sofas where the pet shop boys would sleep and then the tape machines were in the corner in the glass room or in new order it'd be like was it 248 and then we had a half inch as well didn't we yeah we had 224s yeah atari's the dolby thing i remember

01:14:34Yeah, the Dolby's, I used to love them.

01:14:37Some engineers would do that trick.

01:14:39Yeah, the Dolby trick.

01:14:40Put them on the vocals, wouldn't they?

01:14:41Yeah, yeah.

01:14:43But ear compressors, ear EQs in Swan Yard, all Uri 1176s, what else was really cool in Swan Yard?

01:14:54H3000, EVT graphics I loved on the inputs.

01:14:59480.

01:14:59480 Lexicon.

01:15:002.24 is in Studio 2.

01:15:01Yeah, 2.24 is in Studio 480.

01:15:04PCM 60, PCM 70, PCM 80 at one point later on.

01:15:09H3 Rev7 oh yeah the Rev7 H3000 H3000 it's funny isn't it if you were 1580 if you were here if you were if you were here right now in the studio where we're sitting I've actually got all of this shit

01:15:24And actually some of it's from Swan Yard because I went up to Rot Laws two months ago and he gave me like 10 grand of equipment.

01:15:30Because we haven't got to that yet, but we jumped from Swan Yard, that closed down, got turned into a voucher and we bought a desk from Battery.

01:15:42Remember we went to Battery's and Stored Roses?

01:15:44And me and you had a day of mixing and we did a Dusty Remix winter.

01:15:50We did, and then we had a whole day on that, and we said, yeah, buy it, Rollo.

01:15:54And then Swan Yard shut down, and Michelle was just amazing and sold us all the equipment for, like, proper top prices, you know.

01:16:02And, yeah, so we bought, Rollo bought two of your EQs, two of your compressors.

01:16:08The compressors you can join together, the six.

01:16:11He's just given me one of them.

01:16:12They're five grand each now.

01:16:14I couldn't believe it.

01:16:15They've got, like, fucking eight valves in the back of them.

01:16:18No wonder some of the songs are the saxophone.

01:16:19Yeah, that ear's like a, what do you call it?

01:16:21It's five grand this ear EQ now.

01:16:23It's like a Pultec.

01:16:24It's like a Pultec MEQ, isn't it?

01:16:26Yeah, ear A22Q.

01:16:28So I've got one of them, hopefully in two years, when Rollo gives up music altogether.

01:16:34The slinky way.

01:16:35Yeah, he might give me the rest.

01:16:38I'm hoping.

01:16:39But anyway, that's another story.

01:16:42Yeah, so what have I got here?

01:16:43I've got H3000 from Swan Yard, I've got the Spanner from Swan Yard, E-Req from Swan Yard.

01:16:49It's so lovely how it's kept to the person who fucking deserved it the most, who was probably on the shittest money and, you know, hasn't... Fuck it, I was on the shittest money.

01:17:00We were on the shittest money.

01:17:01Yeah, because we were northern idiots and didn't have anything written down.

01:17:04Yeah, yeah, what we're going to do, you're doing so well, we're going to give you all these points.

01:17:09And then years later, I'm like, I better get a lawyer for these fucking points.

01:17:12And then I get the lawyer and the points.

01:17:15Yeah, it's like, no, no, that's half a point.

01:17:17No, no, it was two points.

01:17:18No, no, it's half a point.

01:17:19No, no, it was two points.

01:17:20I fucking remember you saying.

01:17:23So that's a whole other, like, you know, ball game, like, thing we could talk about, but I don't know how much time I've got.

01:17:29No, we keep talking about that.

01:17:31I don't like this, Bob.

01:17:33So what else have I got in here?

01:17:34I've got LA-4s, I've got TubeTech, what's it called, the LCA-2B.

01:17:40I've got a Massenburg GML EQ.

01:17:42I bought that off Mochiba.

01:17:47Did you?

01:17:47Yeah.

01:17:48They had one of them in a... Yeah, I bought that from Mochiba.

01:17:50I've got the URI 1176 from Swan Yard.

01:17:53I've got all the four DVX 160s from Swan Yard and the tube tech ones are from Swan Yard.

01:17:59And I've got a Chorus Echo RE555.

01:18:05I've got Lexicon 200, which I love.

01:18:09I've got a PCM70, which I love the PD player on that.

01:18:13I have a 15, I've got the... 1580 is my favourite.

01:18:16I've got the 1580.

01:18:16That's on every bit of guitar.

01:18:18I've got the 1580 from Swan Yard.

01:18:20And I've got the AMS RMX 16 from Swan Yard.

01:18:24I've got the Bell Delay, what I've had from the beginning, from Trident, I bought that from.

01:18:30I've got an SDE 3000, which I hardly fucking use, Delay.

01:18:33PCM 60.

01:18:34Oh, the SDE is nice, isn't it?

01:18:35Yeah, it's nice, but, you know, you just use the plug-in.

01:18:38Yeah.

01:18:39Now, you know, and that, but...

01:18:43I've got the DAT machine from Trident or Swan Yard.

01:18:47I've got an SH101 what I got for £50.

01:18:50A Fiverr in Fulham in a second-hand shop back in the late 90s.

01:18:55A Fiverr.

01:18:57I've got my Fisher Spring Reverb, which I absolutely love.

01:19:01I've got a little dub station box.

01:19:04You've always had that dub station box.

01:19:06Yeah, Camden Ethiopians.

01:19:08I've got a...

01:19:10JP-800 just as a stupid, the sounds are rubbish I wouldn't even bother.

01:19:15I'll just use it as a key thing, midi thing.

01:19:17I've got a DX-100 which I'll use the piano and I've got a Roland sound canvas and I've got a Casio.

01:19:27Is that your old MPC there?

01:19:28I've got the Casio.

01:19:42my fucking

01:19:53Sling tin Casio.

01:19:56I've got the Yamaha C-S01, which I just love.

01:20:00That's fucking brilliant with my SH-101.

01:20:02It's a wicked studio.

01:20:03So, you know, it's left field sounds in a way, I would say.

01:20:07Like, you know, there's no nod.

01:20:10So then after we've...

01:20:11I've got a Juno 106, which I'll never use because I don't really like.

01:20:14I want the Juno 6 or the 60, really.

01:20:16That's the one.

01:20:19So after that, was it Protocol Studios where you went?

01:20:23Sorry, my desks, I got the Amec BC2s.

01:20:26I've got two of them joined together.

01:20:28I've got an Otari tape machine, which I do on a lot of my mixes.

01:20:33go to that stem, like drum.

01:20:35I always stem.

01:20:36I'm a stem mixer now.

01:20:37I love stem mixing because, you know, you can't get everything done in one day sometimes.

01:20:43And sometimes just capture that moment, see what it's like days later, fuck with it, save it, go back if you need or not.

01:20:51you know, but I always do stem mixes now.

01:20:53So, yeah, so my albums end up going now, like they go to my Otari 8-track, half-inch, so drums on one, stereo, bass on the other.

01:21:03Sometimes the horns might be on top of that because then I can maybe separate with EQ, filter and that.

01:21:08And then keys, guitar and...

01:21:10on five and six on the tape machine, and then vocals on seven and eight, and all sort of the reverbs trying to go to them tracks as well, try to do that.

01:21:20So then you've got an instrumental off tape where there's no spill of the reverb or the vocal, basically.

01:21:25So I try to do that, go to the tape.

01:21:28As I'm recording it into tape, I'm recording on tape, but I've also got the four stereo tracks on Logic in record.

01:21:39with the tape machine output straight in.

01:21:41So you're going straight back into it from the tape?

01:21:43Yeah, exactly, with the volumes down, you know what I mean?

01:21:45Yeah, yeah.

01:21:45And just straight in.

01:21:47So then I get that in one go, because I'm running at 48 or 44 kilohertz, so then I'll stop that, get my mix, then I'll load up a new Logic at 96k.

01:21:58And then get off tape.

01:21:59Rewind the tape, play the tape, put that into 96k and the four stereos, and then I mess about with them stems overdub.

01:22:08Yeah, yeah.

01:22:09But, you know, it takes me a day and a half or two to get to that stepping bit on the tape, you know.

01:22:16Normally I'm a day and a half a mix, really.

01:22:18But then some songs, you know, I'm fucking out.

01:22:21I've done 30, 20, 30 mixes on some of my own songs.

01:22:24We should talk about that, actually, Grip.

01:22:25We should talk about the Hempolix.

01:22:26Some songs are just hard to get.

01:22:28So where did the Hempolix come from?

01:22:30I know where it came from, but where did it come from?

01:22:32Like what was your, because I was there, but what was in your head when you were doing it?

01:22:37Was it just messing about with vibes and stuff?

01:22:40Yeah.

01:22:41Because I remember like, we'd just be in the studio, but I'd write, you're always doing crazy tunes, everyone kind of, it's Gripper's doing his fucking tunes and everyone would want to get on them.

01:22:49Everyone would be like, oh man, you know, as soon as Gripper's tunes are up, beats are up, everyone would be jumping.

01:22:52Yeah, because you know, it was Massive Attack, it was Port Asaid, it was, you know, we had all the Bristol trip up.

01:22:59And then, you know, it was like, I don't know, sampling and I don't know, it was just fucking.

01:23:04Yeah, so you'd do tunes and everyone would jump on them and we'd all be playing.

01:23:07And I always loved Doug.

01:23:08Everyone at the studio would be playing on the Hen Pollock's tunes.

01:23:11Yeah.

01:23:13And then there was, I remember there was always little bits of tunes floating about.

01:23:16There was like 20 tunes that were kind of nearly done.

01:23:19And then we'd all sort of said at one time.

01:23:21The art of finishing songs, shit, man, it's an art.

01:23:25You've got to learn that art, haven't you?

01:23:26Because that's it, you know, like Rollo was good at, Rollo was unbelievable because he was an entrepreneur because he could, he was a fucking manipulator.

01:23:35Like he's just, he was just, he just, you know, he knew about how people work to psychology.

01:23:41He would.

01:23:42He knew how to produce.

01:23:44He had a good ear for that.

01:23:45And he knew what team to put together to make, help get to where he wanted to get.

01:23:50Yeah, yeah, like get that guitar, that drum.

01:23:51Yeah, exactly.

01:23:52Because his dad was a publisher and his dad used to go, you work with him, you work with him, mix that together and make this happen.

01:23:59You know, and so his dad, he was brought up with that.

01:24:02You know, and so he's always been King Rollo.

01:24:05You know, he just could fucking mix.

01:24:07He could sort of, he couldn't mix, but he could produce.

01:24:09He could.

01:24:11Do all the business all day.

01:24:12He was on the phone all day doing the fucking cheeky records.

01:24:15Yeah, yeah.

01:24:15Sorting shit out.

01:24:16Yeah, sorting all the... You know, it was amazing, really.

01:24:20You just all of a sudden, it's like...

01:24:22Working on stuff next minute, I mean, I beef with the fucking Faithless and the songs all over the place, you know.

01:24:30You know, it was just good days.

01:24:32Good days, weren't it?

01:24:33Yeah.

01:24:33It was hectic days, though, and the studios were, like, busy.

01:24:36It was one album after another after another after another.

01:24:37And it was a team, you know, it was always good, it was just...

01:24:40It was like a crew of people, weren't it?

01:24:41Yeah, like, with everyone, I don't know what, like, but I'm on my own a lot of the time now, but back then, man, you were a team of people.

01:24:49And it was like this working all off each other, you know, Lennon, McCartney.

01:24:52Everyone knew kind of what everyone else was good at, so you just get them in and bang, everyone would just be doing their thing, coming in, doing their thing, going out, coming back, doing their thing on different record.

01:25:02Another album, different artists, different production.

01:25:06In there, fucking guitar, you'd be mixing it.

01:25:08Yeah, exactly.

01:25:09You know, all the different sessions.

01:25:11You know, we can say, what can we say about our assistant as well?

01:25:14It's like Adam F. I remember meeting Huggy Bear, he was doing some more of a dub.

01:25:18for Adam F for his first album and Huggy Bear, Start Skiing Hutch.

01:25:23Do you know what I mean?

01:25:24I used to watch that up north when I was a kid, Love, Start Skiing Hutch.

01:25:27That's not my period.

01:25:28Next minute I met fucking Huggy Bear with a weird-ass wife, white wife, who was this weird manager, who's his manager, but yeah, and he was a bit odd anyway.

01:25:37You know, Americans.

01:25:39Sorry, no offence, America.

01:25:41Americas with money.

01:25:42Anyway.

01:25:45Or whatever, like, odd, bit of an odd character, you know, cartoon character of himself.

01:25:51Yeah, parody of himself.

01:25:52Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:25:52That's what it ends up being, doesn't it?

01:25:55But, you know, like, remember, like, phone calls from somebody, like, some crazy American, like...

01:26:01ringing up Swanyard going, thingy worked in here.

01:26:06Was it the Beatles?

01:26:07Who was it who said it?

01:26:09I know they worked there.

01:26:11And we're having this conversation with these idiots.

01:26:13You remember Finlay Quay?

01:26:14I remember being in Trident with Finlay Quay.

01:26:17First album, me and him, I was a bit a year older than him, so I was like 21 and he was 18, 19.

01:26:22I remember that, I remember that album.

01:26:24Fucking hell, voice like Horace Sandy, where you just didn't have to try, just turned it on.

01:26:29Bosh, it was like angels from heaven.

01:26:31you know, with no effort, just amazing, you know, and he's a good lad he was, young lad from Edinburgh, and that was in Trident, you know, and then that was it.

01:26:41I remember that, Trident Sessions.

01:26:42First album with Pete Craigie, remember Pete Craigie?

01:26:44Yeah, Pete Craigie.

01:26:44He was a fucking good lad he was.

01:26:47Loved Pete Craigie.

01:26:48Crack, what a crack with him.

01:26:51And good engineer, very compressed.

01:26:53Yeah.

01:26:54Very, like, you know, he had that sound.

01:26:56You know, we all had our sounds.

01:26:58We all find, you know, it's weird.

01:27:00Yeah.

01:27:01You know, you just... You get that, your character comes out on the mix, doesn't it?

01:27:03Yeah, exactly.

01:27:05You can have the most boring engineers and they're doing...

01:27:07Honestly, you can trust me, they're doing the most boringest music.

01:27:10Yeah.

01:27:11You know?

01:27:12Me and you were looking at each other going what the fuck's going on here I saw them sessions at night, you were on a strangle yourself Going oh my god and these people are so serious about it Just let loose a bit I remember being on a session with this Japanese band They were like super fucking, everything was like so tight and so perfect It took like days just to do one bit It was horrific No vibe at all Just no vibes And then I remember working with that Simple Minds drummer He was a fucking right laughing

01:27:40He didn't seem to give a shit, he was just... Paul Weller.

01:27:43Yeah, there's that...

01:27:45Ocean Colour scene, wasn't it?

01:27:47He did that on that piano, didn't he?

01:27:48Yeah, I tried, didn't I?

01:27:49Yeah, doing that.

01:27:50I remember I did that... What was it?

01:27:55Neil Young thing.

01:27:57Or Neil Love, was it?

01:27:58I can't remember that.

01:28:02But, yeah.

01:28:04What else, then?

01:28:06But then, so, let's move forwards.

01:28:07Are we in Hempolix?

01:28:08So let's go to Hempolix World now.

01:28:10So the Hempolix, I remember...

01:28:12So, yeah, we're in Trident still.

01:28:14I was still with the Orb trying to do the Hempolix and trying to work... How did you get the name?

01:28:18I was trying to work out my sound.

01:28:20My fricking... Well, you know me, I'm a hemp and an alcoholic.

01:28:26I got my stomach pumped when I was 15.

01:28:28I used to drink from 11.

01:28:30to 15 and then I got my stomach pumped at the school disco.

01:28:35Christmas party.

01:28:36I didn't even get there, mate.

01:28:38Found from a blood trail from the Babylon with the freaking blood falling, blood into the public toilet.

01:28:44Pissed myself.

01:28:45Puked everywhere, blood everywhere and then stomach pumped.

01:28:48And guess what, guys?

01:28:50I went to school the next day to show off.

01:28:52And then I puked up on the fucking bus going to school in the morning and then fuck.

01:28:58He was a teacher driver.

01:28:59I hated him.

01:29:01And he made me wipe all my puke up after the night of a stomach pump in Osport.

01:29:07I got out, I made him, I'm getting out.

01:29:10I'm going to school.

01:29:11I'm fucking, you know, I didn't even thought I was a rebel.

01:29:14Absolute idiot.

01:29:15Complete and utter idiot.

01:29:17I take my skateboard to school every day.

01:29:20take knives to school every day.

01:29:22Swap knives.

01:29:23I had fucking Rambo knife.

01:29:25Every flick of knife.

01:29:26Rambo knives were in fashion.

01:29:27Yeah, but, you know, this was like Kez business.

01:29:30You know, we've come out of the 70s, you know, and it still wasn't that far.

01:29:34The teachers were still the teachers who were teaching from the 70s.

01:29:37It's fucking exactly like Kez.

01:29:38I used to get grabbed by the throat by the PE teacher.

01:29:41You know, he used to say, come and watch all our little naked little kid bodies.

01:29:46Watch us with mud on us all from rugby, like staring at us.

01:29:50little fuckers I'd love to go back to that school and tell them you know what you just didn't let me have a chance you just said to me you're not going to do anything you're not going to college well why don't you be a builder I remember saying I'm going to be a professional skateboarder ha ha ha ha

01:30:10Laugh me down the Peter maths teacher laugh me down right in front of everyone.

01:30:16I was so embarrassed Because I wanted to be fresh skateboard made me feel shit.

01:30:20I'm 15 or 40, you know but we fucked up because

01:30:24his son and daughter went to my school, so I fucking tortured them.

01:30:29And for him torturing me, I tortured them.

01:30:32Because, you know, for the last few months of school, I used to smash them, fire.

01:30:37I had ADHD.

01:30:38You know, I don't know what, I'm still not diagnosed.

01:30:40Do you know what I mean?

01:30:42But I was wild.

01:30:43I've calmed down in loads of ways since then.

01:30:45But I was like stink bombs in the assembly.

01:30:48You know, like, nicking, like, chip butties.

01:30:51You know, not nicking people's shit.

01:30:53I would never do that.

01:30:54I'm quite a loyal guy, like, but just ragga.

01:30:57A little bit of ragga.

01:30:59Wandering around in a gang in first year, taking on 50ers.

01:31:03Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:04Rubbing people, snowballing them.

01:31:06You know, it was like we are gypsies, travellers.

01:31:09You know, travellers, sorry.

01:31:11you know posh kids and poor kids and normal and farmer kids it was all like weird kids because basically when i was three and a half i was in this estate called roseworth and hardwick i was brought up in hardwick in stockton in my nana's house because my mum and dad were like 17 and 18 19 or 17 17 18 and 19 when they had me but 17 18 when they had my sister

01:31:34So I was out wild in the 70s.

01:31:38That's wrong in the street.

01:31:39With older lads.

01:31:40And these older lads, when I was three and a half, took me from this estate, a mile and a bit down on a bus to the town, took me and W.H.

01:31:49Smith and said, right, we're going to all nick, or you're going to nick a Batman car.

01:31:53with robin you know the batman yeah yeah we love batman i know a lot of batman and then so i went in and then the store detectives were on it because it was just a bunch of little ragga kids they were like eight nine and i was like three and then next minute all dispersed chased got away from them everyone got away no one got caught but i got lost from everyone and i just was wandering around with this batman car

01:32:18Crying my little eyes out with my little blonde curly hair, little fat face.

01:32:22Everyone used to call me Mork.

01:32:24Because I used to have, like, crazy, like, tantrums and...

01:32:29I used to have knots in my stomach, but I didn't fucking feel like nutty.

01:32:33I'd just go and smash windows in.

01:32:38Anyway, I got my... Now, my nana's sister's kid seen me crying in the street on a bike, and I remember she put me on the... Crogied me home.

01:32:52and then my parents basically went, we're not living here anymore, and they moved to the middle of nowhere, like 10 miles from the town.

01:32:59My house was a mile and a half down this dirt track, private road.

01:33:04Proper out of work.

01:33:05Yeah, it was wicked.

01:33:06It was like I was a huckleberry fin all of a sudden.

01:33:09I love outdoor anyway, so I used to make rafts and have motorbikes, used to bob around on motorbikes because it was a private road, but it was one shop in the village.

01:33:17The postman who had that one shop would pick me and my sister up, he'd get paid a bit extra when he delivered the post to my cottage at the dead end with an extra farm, 10 quid a week it probably was, or something like that, 8 quid a week then.

01:33:33he would pick me and my sister up and we'd drive back to the village, get dropped off at 10 past eight and then be on a 40, 50 minute bus to the school.

01:33:41Like, it was just a nightmare.

01:33:42And I hated the mornings.

01:33:44Never liked the mornings.

01:33:45Still don't.

01:33:47I'm a night hawk.

01:33:48I love the night.

01:33:49This is when, that's when I'm born to do music.

01:33:52Just, I love being on the night.

01:33:54Even now, I come down here at six and I work at four or five.

01:33:57because it's quiet outside and I'm doing my thing.

01:34:01I don't know, I've never been one of these, get all this shit done in the morning, oh fuck the morning.

01:34:08So Grip, how was the difference then?

01:34:12coming from purely a studio and the kind of production and writing background to playing live, because I remember you... Because to me, that was totally normal.

01:34:20It was like, yep, that's the kind of shit I do all the time.

01:34:22And I remember when The Hemp started and we started rehearsing that.

01:34:24Yeah, so, yeah, so hold on.

01:34:26So, yeah, so The Hemp, it was like these demos I was trying to do in the middle of working full-time as an engineer and having a kid.

01:34:35So it was always just these ideas and maybe this one day I could come into this light.

01:34:40I always had this idea of writers.

01:34:43Hem Pollux was born from having an idea of doing all these types of music with one sound, in a way, and trying to stitch it all together, but it's like...

01:34:54I've always not, like, I've just got sick of albums where it's just, like, one long song.

01:34:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:34:58The whole album just doesn't sound in.

01:35:00Every song sounds the fucking same.

01:35:02Yeah.

01:35:02You know, and that just used to drive me mad, you know, from working on them.

01:35:06I know.

01:35:07You know, and just going, fucking hell, this is the middle eight.

01:35:11These two songs are the middle eight.

01:35:12This is the verse.

01:35:13Well, this song's the verse.

01:35:14Yeah, yeah.

01:35:15This is the album.

01:35:16Yeah, the album's one song.

01:35:17Yeah.

01:35:18And so I used to get sick of that.

01:35:23And then I was just like, and I like working with people and going, right, we're going to not do anything you fucking do.

01:35:28Because I don't know, when I was younger, right, when the Top of the Pop days, the Tube days, I always loved the Middle Eights.

01:35:36Middle eights are always like, oh, why doesn't the middle eight... Yeah, yeah.

01:35:39Oh, I love the middle eight.

01:35:40What the fuck?

01:35:41Totally changes.

01:35:42Yeah, I've always just been into... You know, I love songs, but middle eights have always got me rocking.

01:35:47And I'm always like, fucking hell.

01:35:49I swear, you know.

01:35:50Fucking love a good old middle eight.

01:35:53just twisting it around.

01:35:55So that's me with a song.

01:35:56I always wanted to just twist it around, work with an artist, Maxi Fit, you know, whoever it was, or just wanted to twist it around.

01:36:03So, yeah, and I just want to try to... And I've got this reggae background from just how I love reggae from a kid.

01:36:09And you were always into that funkadelic and all that stuff, were you?

01:36:12Psychedelic rock and stuff.

01:36:12Psychedelic, yeah, exactly.

01:36:14And, you know, garage, 60s garage.

01:36:16Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:36:17you know, speakeasies, kids checking, young kids, you know, I love, I always loved, like, up, upper class, you know, uptown, downtown, you'd say in America, upper class, lower class here, you know, England, we have estates mixed with posh houses, so you have a best friend who's a posh fucker for a bit, or you've got a rough kid.

01:36:40who's your mate, well, for a bit of your life or wherever, you know.

01:36:43Yeah, yeah.

01:36:43It's like that here, but over there, it's a bit different, isn't it?

01:36:46Yeah, yeah.

01:36:47Sectioned.

01:36:47A bit more sectioned out.

01:36:48Yeah, segregated because it's massive.

01:36:51So massive.

01:36:52Anyway, what were we saying?

01:36:55Hempolics.

01:36:56Yeah, hempolics.

01:36:58Yeah, so hempolics is just basically stemmed from...

01:37:02It took me years to find a sound, it took me years to learn how to...

01:37:08Instead of doing these jam sort of vibe songs, trying to make them and just learn how to make a song.

01:37:16Yeah, because they were quite jammy stuff.

01:37:18Yeah, exactly.

01:37:19Jams churning into the songs.

01:37:21I'd always start with the drums and bass.

01:37:24yeah exactly um but yes i'd work with people who i just met in the studio you know because i've come friends with people and then next thing it's like all right you want to come and do two with me you know and then you know jump on get it get in all right that was it really and then come back you know come back into my little i had a studio in my bedroom for years because i was we were spoiled because i had rollo's we had rollo's studio but after swan yard that closed down and we rollo bought everything i think he even took the desk didn't he

01:37:54No, we bought the battery from what Stone Rose's Fool's Gold was on.

01:37:58But everything else we ended up buying him a mail bottle.

01:38:00Yeah, and we could just pick all the equipment we wanted.

01:38:03Mics, a nice mic.

01:38:05We could pick mics and the outboard and then we set up a studio in...

01:38:09Holloway Road Protocol Protocol Yeah He let us take over That was a good little sound Good little live room I liked it though That Sunday's record Was done there wasn't it Yeah Exactly With Craig David downstairs Craig David played footy Used to play footy with him Yeah Never beat us ever did he Yeah and then he's like Can I go on your side

01:38:29That's the only time he ever won.

01:38:30He was on our side, remember?

01:38:31He didn't have his white tracksuit on.

01:38:33And you remember Ben Langmaid was Rollo's best mate from school, wasn't it?

01:38:37It was his schoolmates and stuff.

01:38:39And Ben Langmaid was LaRue.

01:38:41And you remember when I met Ben Langmaid before I met Rollo in Trident doing Huff and Herb or Huff and Puff.

01:38:48That's where I met him.

01:38:49Yeah, you remember them?

01:38:50Before I met Rollo.

01:38:50Coke sessions.

01:38:52house cork sessions and yeah so then Ben Lang, Lang May did La Rue yeah, what was I saying about being Lang May'd

01:39:01Shit, my mouth's getting dry and I'm getting high and high.

01:39:05Yee-hee!

01:39:05I've always done everything high, by the way, everyone.

01:39:08Like, just, I don't know, I've always learnt the hard way, like, under pressure, stoned out my mind.

01:39:14I can't make a mistake because you can't blame...

01:39:17I'm not letting you blame the weed.

01:39:18It's so easy to blame the weed.

01:39:20You can piss off.

01:39:22You know what I mean?

01:39:23So, hemp pollocks.

01:39:26So, I love my ganj, still do.

01:39:28I'm not living breathing, but I'm addicted.

01:39:31But I'm calming down.

01:39:33You're definitely calmed down.

01:39:34I've calmed quite a bit down, yeah.

01:39:36So live, when we ended up playing live.

01:39:38So live, right, okay, so basically that's a great story.

01:39:42So I was doing, you know, still engineering, and then...

01:39:46So I was starting to come, starting to get sick of Faithless and Rollo and all that.

01:39:52I think it was 12 years in, 10 years in.

01:39:55There's a lot of records.

01:39:57And then I could just feel they started not being bothered anymore.

01:40:01So then that rubs off onto me because I'm very sensitive.

01:40:06So then I'm like, well, I'll just fucking do it for the money then.

01:40:08Fuck this.

01:40:08Do you know what I mean?

01:40:10Why am I trying?

01:40:11These aren't fucking trying.

01:40:13You know, there's loads of beans I could spill, but I'm not going to try to spill them on purpose.

01:40:19But that's a little bit of a bean.

01:40:22Yeah.

01:40:23I used to sit also you remember me you remember me I used to get caught nearly like oh milliseconds getting caught saying shit because my mouth just runs off runs off I can't keep it in I say what I feel I wear my heart on my sleeve and I don't give a shit most of the time

01:40:42And then I get power after.

01:40:44Shit.

01:40:44Then you get in trouble later on.

01:40:46Yeah, no.

01:40:48So, Hempolix live.

01:40:50Basically, my fucking son, Blue, he was 13 turning to 14.

01:40:57And he'd gone to France.

01:40:59And his best mate, Barney, had gone to France with him.

01:41:02And he...

01:41:06Barney's actually involved in this cool thing at the moment.

01:41:09Anyway, musically, anyway, Blue and him made this band up called White Tea, right?

01:41:14And they came back and played me these demos.

01:41:16They were doing this, like...

01:41:17It's like rappy, cool, like positive, funny.

01:41:21I remember that.

01:41:22Like, you know, it was when, you know, what was them New Zealand, like, weird TV show that came out, Flight of the Seagulls or Flight, what was it, Navigate.

01:41:32Flight of the Conchords.

01:41:33Yeah, Flight of the Conchords.

01:41:34I wasn't into it.

01:41:35He was all into that, you know, and so that was all out then and other stuff.

01:41:38So, yeah, and they came out and I was like, what, this is banging, I'll help you.

01:41:41And Scott's dad was in...

01:41:43He was in...

01:41:44the band called The Cord Roys.

01:41:45He's a multi-talented musician.

01:41:47I had a studio upstairs after school, but come on, boys.

01:41:52Let's get these tracks done.

01:41:53I remember that.

01:41:54Because they went off to the BBC or something, didn't they?

01:41:56Yeah, so I sent it off to Rob the Bank.

01:42:00Because remember Rollo signed something?

01:42:01Remember when we did a tune with Sunday Best?

01:42:03And it was like, Rollo helped Sunday Best get signed to BMG because Cheeky got signed to BMG for millions, remember, and died off.

01:42:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:42:12The second album and stuff.

01:42:13So anyway, and the Mel Medallion, bye-bye.

01:42:16Rollo was like, I want to control this myself.

01:42:19but then you go and sign a big label, which... You just swallowed it up.

01:42:22But people are just... You don't see the... You can't see it, you know, but... People will say it.

01:42:27But then it was just meant to happen anyway.

01:42:29It was meant to happen that way anyway, you know.

01:42:30Who am I to say shit?

01:42:34So, yeah, so Blue... All of a sudden, Rob...

01:42:37Rob fricking...

01:42:38He had the...

01:42:39He took over from the Sunday Evening... What's his name?

01:42:44Who died.

01:42:45I know who you mean.

01:42:46John Peel.

01:42:46John Peel, yeah.

01:42:47John Peel.

01:42:48He took over John Peel's show, so I sent that.

01:42:49And next minute, he's like, his producer's like, we want this.

01:42:52We want this.

01:42:53I'm like, huh?

01:42:54And then he's like, come and play live this day.

01:42:58And it was actually June the fucking 10th.

01:43:00No, no, it was before June the 10th.

01:43:02It actually got played out on my son's Sunday night.

01:43:06And my son's 14th birthday was Monday.

01:43:09and he played it at midnight or 1.

01:43:11It was crazy, you know what I mean?

01:43:13It's a coincidence, isn't it?

01:43:14But it was made available.

01:43:17John Peel's studio.

01:43:20I couldn't be bothered with a drummer then.

01:43:21Made it easy.

01:43:22Sax player, trombone player.

01:43:25And MPC, which I was on, and then Scott was playing the guitar, I think, or keys, I can't remember now.

01:43:33Keys, I think.

01:43:34Yeah, keys, I think.

01:43:35Did you play guitar in it?

01:43:36No.

01:43:36Not live.

01:43:37No, so then it was basically my son and his mate went in and just literally smashed it.

01:43:44And that got me, because basically I sat in the studio going, I'll never be able to get on stage.

01:43:49That was sham.

01:43:50I'm too sham.

01:43:52Even though I'm fricking Gemini and I quite love being quite like, you know, I'm not bothered.

01:43:59Like, honest, now.

01:44:01It's like duck to water to me.

01:44:03I don't even give a fuck.

01:44:03I'm out the front, smoking a joint, chatting to someone.

01:44:06You know, I still basically, you know, back to when we were young, I said, you know, you know the band, Finley Crear, Skinny, all them, and you go and see them at Glastonbury or Faithless, and they'd be like, oh, no, we need an hour.

01:44:19You know, loads of bands need their hour, need something to get together before they go and do their magic stage thing.

01:44:25Mate, we're for, you know, I don't give a fuck, man.

01:44:29I'm just like, come on, let's have it.

01:44:31It's my attitude and it's work and work.

01:44:33And let's perform for this hour, hour and ten minutes.

01:44:36Some gigs it's like fucking hell, hurry up songs.

01:44:39Some gigs it's like I don't want it to end.

01:44:42You know, and I'm proud as punch cuts.

01:44:43Every song's hit the mark.

01:44:45and you and normally when that happens it's because you're getting the feedback from the yeah yeah it's all about the feedback the venue and the and who's turned up you know what i mean and they're getting it and you know and it's just like oh it's just one great like circle you know of energy and then some kids are like get me the home you know somebody's shouting right now you know the vibe's dead you'll be on your beyonce

01:45:10You know, oh, what we're doing here, you know, somehow we've got this dodgy gig.

01:45:14Anyway, but, you know, that's the thing.

01:45:16But, yeah, so that gave me the confidence to go, you know what, I'm going to get the band together because I've got all these demos.

01:45:22Let me try to find out, you know, but you know me, I finished like 20 songs before I went.

01:45:28There's more than 20 songs.

01:45:29I remember you sending me all the songs and it was like, let's pick the best bit and make 12 songs.

01:45:35Yeah, exactly.

01:45:36And let's make the best 12 songs.

01:45:37Because that changed over the years, you know, and then... And then...

01:45:42I don't know about that.

01:45:43Then we just got that suit and booked a studio, didn't we?

01:45:44I was like, right, fuck it, let's just book a studio and rehearse and get everyone in.

01:45:48Yeah, exactly.

01:45:49And we did get a pretty tasty band together, pretty sharpish as well.

01:45:52Yeah, and the songs were pretty good.

01:45:54And then we did five gigs.

01:45:56I remember the Cobden Club was the fifth gig.

01:45:59We did play Brixton first.

01:46:00Cobden Club.

01:46:01Brixton was the first gig.

01:46:02That was wicked.

01:46:04That went down a storm, didn't it?

01:46:05I remember.

01:46:06Supporting the Herbalizer, Big Up Herbalizer was our first gig.

01:46:10And then...

01:46:12Yeah, what was it called again?

01:46:14Not the fridge, not the wardrobe, not the academy.

01:46:17I remember doing Cobden Club.

01:46:19Because that Cobden Club was a good gig.

01:46:20What a sound.

01:46:21That sounded fucking... That was like... Because we needed to do that gig to kind of get it.

01:46:25I remember the guy who ran it was like, I've never heard anyone except Amy Winehouse sound like this.

01:46:30You know what I mean?

01:46:30I was like, what?

01:46:32Yeah, we were proper on it that night, I think.

01:46:34Anyway, the vibes were up, and then we, next minute, because I knew Faithless were doing a tour.

01:46:42I mean, I didn't have a manager.

01:46:44I didn't have an album.

01:46:45I literally burnt some CDs, like vinyl CDs, and pressed them myself, bought a printer with colour, made some T-shirts, didn't have a plan.

01:46:55Too stoned to have a plan.

01:46:57Got a little minibus, turned up at my house.

01:47:00Rented a massive fucking sleeper thing because we couldn't afford a hotel.

01:47:05And we followed Faithless from bloody... Oh, that was hard work, wasn't it?

01:47:09We did England tour, yeah, but it was like... We started off in Europe.

01:47:12We went, first you came up to my house.

01:47:13But it wasn't... And then we drove, picked everyone up and we went on the ferry.

01:47:17And I think we were in Belgium the next day and then we were in Cologne.

01:47:21Just driving, I was fucked.

01:47:22I'd been working my arse off.

01:47:24I slept for like two days.

01:47:25Yeah.

01:47:26But that was mad.

01:47:27That was mad.

01:47:28And it was great.

01:47:28Like, I thought we were sounding, you know, it was good to see all them years of...

01:47:34listening to them tunes just coming alive on stage.

01:47:36And it was fucking good.

01:47:38It was like, oh, wow, that's going to work then.

01:47:40So after that, you managed to get the album done.

01:47:43Yeah, we had some gigs where we were like, the kids who'd gone with the mums and dads to go and see Faithless were saying...

01:47:53Oh, we're like, you're better than Faithless.

01:47:54And that just inspired me.

01:47:56It was great when we'd see the people outside the gigs and they'd be fucking... And even when we were on stage, they'd be buzzing.

01:48:02That was like an eye-opener, wasn't it?

01:48:03It was an eye-opener that it went down so well.

01:48:06Which you knew it would.

01:48:08I knew it would.

01:48:10Straight away, I was like, this is going to be wicked.

01:48:12Because it's so different.

01:48:14No-one else was doing that kind of thing.

01:48:15And it was all really organic as well.

01:48:17Yeah, exactly.

01:48:18All just time made it happen.

01:48:20There was no rush.

01:48:22I did it a bit too slow probably.

01:48:25But you know what, I've finished the third album now and this was a treat to make.

01:48:30There was only one song, Wiki World, what tortured me, but all the rest were pretty good to do.

01:48:38But the first album, it was the Maxi Jazz song was really hard to do.

01:48:43And the Roadside Paolo Nutini, because I always wanted the demo vocal.

01:48:49He just did it with so much purity in his vocals and his heart.

01:48:54But he was just like, I've changed my vocal style.

01:48:56We just had massive fight.

01:48:58Actually, that was one of the reasons.

01:49:01Sorry, Paolo, I don't give a fuck.

01:49:03That was one of the reasons why the album took so long to actually get out, because I wanted Roadside and Maxion.

01:49:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:49:10For some reason, I just knew it just fitted.

01:49:12I had the order.

01:49:13Well, they had to, because it was like that.

01:49:14I had the order.

01:49:15We knew them.

01:49:15It was like I needed to get a bit more press, organic press, because we had no money.

01:49:20Yeah, yeah.

01:49:20So I knew that might help a bit.

01:49:22Even though it didn't really help a lot, but, you know, it was the reggae what did it.

01:49:26Yeah, yeah.

01:49:27It was my love to sing and the boss caught my style.

01:49:29You know what I mean?

01:49:29Yeah.

01:49:31It was them tracks actually and Sirius really.

01:49:34And Sirius was regular roast.

01:49:36It was a demo.

01:49:37That was a demo before, wasn't it?

01:49:39I hadn't finished it when I gave it a regular roast.

01:49:40It was a demo from a big drum.

01:49:41Is that what's been on drums on that one?

01:49:43No.

01:49:45Yeah.

01:49:46I programmed that drum.

01:49:47What did you program that drum?

01:49:48He did the new version.

01:49:49He did it all right.

01:49:50He's done the new version, but now I've got Craig.

01:49:52Craig's done it because we've done a whole new arrangement live.

01:49:55So, yeah, another thing is, like, so you do series for ages and then we start doing this, like, different end and the next minute we've got this whole amazing restart and looping around the first bar.

01:50:05Yeah, just changing it up when you get live.

01:50:06Dropping back to, yeah, yeah, and, you know, like, help with, you know, the bass player, Lorenzo, helped us work that one out.

01:50:11But now I've recorded that.

01:50:13come back on right I want to call that I want that you know serious had like

01:50:17I chopped up this sample from Hemsley Morris, this Rocksteady artist.

01:50:23Did it my own way, you know, like I did hip, like making hip hop but with reggae.

01:50:27You know, that's what I sort of did in a way, tried to do.

01:50:30And then, so then now I've done that, but played it all live, because we played it live for years.

01:50:37Now I've done the live version, but made it studio live version, yeah.

01:50:40Made it sound like the fucking- Made this, done this new arrangement, and now I've got Maccabee on it.

01:50:46I've got stuff did we did serious got new be doing back in focus across Dan and you be do it live done this whole new arrangement no samples all played and I was like, you know what?

01:50:56I'm gonna send this to Maccabee because I fucking love his I've always loved Maccabee's lyrics I think he's like one of the best reggae Poets out there and lyricists at the moment and still from the 80s.

01:51:08I used to love him from Indian chick anyway

01:51:12He got it.

01:51:14I spoke to him on the phone for a bit.

01:51:15Next minute he's wrote this song called One Laugh For Them.

01:51:19And it's just so current, so now.

01:51:22And I've just got the artwork yesterday from my boy Omar in Mexico.

01:51:26Big up Omar, love you.

01:51:28It's fucking wicked here, I'll show you in a second.

01:51:33One Laugh For Them.

01:51:37So when's the new album out?

01:51:39Looking with the scales, right?

01:51:40He's got some scales.

01:51:41Did he do all the artwork?

01:51:42Yeah, yeah.

01:51:43So I've kept all the artwork.

01:51:45The same artist.

01:51:46Honestly, I stick to my guns, me.

01:51:48It's weird, right?

01:51:50When I thought of the Hempolix name with my cousin Ben, I was in the Isle of Wight.

01:51:53He said, well, alcoholics were out.

01:51:55I think we were listening to alcoholics on a CD.

01:51:58The band Alcoholics.

01:51:59And he goes, why don't you call yourself Hempolix?

01:52:01I went...

01:52:02Fucking yeah.

01:52:03So then as soon as he said that, I went, yeah, and it's going to be called Kiss Cuddling Torture, and I want volume one, volume two, volume three.

01:52:11I think maybe it's to do with Soul to Soul, or it's all to do with my Electro 1, 2, 3.

01:52:17Yeah, the Electro 1, 2, 3.

01:52:19Volume 1, 2, 3.

01:52:19I was obsessed with all them when I was a kid.

01:52:22You know, Roxanne Chanté, you know, just all this 808s and these little, like, what turned into Acid House, you know, when the white boys got older than.

01:52:31That's fucking great, isn't it?

01:52:33But, you know, I used to love Malcolm McLaren, Buffalo Girls, because, honestly, Malcolm McLaren, he's a big inspiration because he's such a crossover guy.

01:52:42Yeah, yeah.

01:52:42He was a genius.

01:52:43He'd try everything, punk.

01:52:45He's a media-manipulating genius, and he could make music.

01:52:48Yeah.

01:52:49I don't know what his sessions, after his sessions, but Madden Butterfly, Car Men, you know what I mean, doing opera, and then doing Buffalo Girls, walking down the street in the Bronx, and seeing, you know, and this is a posh fucker, proper posh dude, you know, these are posh, honest, I keep looking at the sex pistols in the Kings Road, and I'm like, see the posh, see the sex pistols, they're posh, because they're, what they're hanging about Kings Road for?

01:53:17It was that shop, wasn't it?

01:53:18It was the shop that was on there.

01:53:19I know, but...

01:53:20I know, but what the fuck were they hanging out?

01:53:21I think they were working in a clothes shop, didn't they?

01:53:24Yeah, probably, yeah.

01:53:25I think they did similar to you.

01:53:26Anyway, God bless, you know.

01:53:30I like Johnny Rotten, anyway.

01:53:34What were we saying?

01:53:35So, when's the album out?

01:53:37So, album, yeah, I'm literally there.

01:53:39I'm there.

01:53:40One of the vocalists is just redoing an intro.

01:53:43And I'm literally going, turn this vocal down a little bit, wetten this bit, do this.

01:53:48It's that little tiny percent left.

01:53:51As I do, I stem it now, so I don't have to have the mixing desk to get it back.

01:53:55Yeah, yeah, you can just get it straight up.

01:53:57Yeah, load up.

01:53:58do that, that.

01:53:59So that brings us to the last...

01:54:00I do like listening to it in another room.

01:54:02You get stuck on it.

01:54:03Still to this day, man, it's like you... You've got to listen to it.

01:54:06You still get used to stuff.

01:54:08You still get, like...

01:54:11The room tricks you from being... Looping around it.

01:54:14You're looping around something all fucking day.

01:54:17You just lose perspective, don't you?

01:54:18Yeah, you lose all perspective, you know, in your mind.

01:54:20And then the sound's dead in the room.

01:54:21But then at the same time, if you can get that demo, like...

01:54:24really good that day normally that's the best one yeah the raw demo that first mix yeah if you can somehow make that good and be asked to do that on the first day or so yeah because normally you're like can we have it like the demo sometimes it's like that's not

01:54:40but a little bit better yeah and i'm out of a and b's of demos i used to do as an engineer okay it'd be play the dart the same time as that we play the tape machine yeah yeah then flick oh my god the stress and you know what you just have to rewind but it was hard and things took longer

01:54:58your ears had a freaking rest now you don't have a rest you've got loops any second you want anything you used to have to rewind the whole thing that snare's fucked on that right how do we get that snare

01:55:13a live snare, you know, and you'd have to sample it on the AMS delay.

01:55:17Yeah, yeah.

01:55:18Off the tape.

01:55:19Trigger it.

01:55:20Yeah, exactly.

01:55:21If it was two mics, you'd have to do a mix and commit to that mix.

01:55:26Trigger it.

01:55:27Then you'd have to drop in on that split-second snare and that tape over, you know, get it, like, unbelievable skills.

01:55:36Even just cutting tape.

01:55:37Yeah, cutting tape.

01:55:38We'd be doing tape edits on tape.

01:55:41Yeah.

01:55:42Sometimes it went pear-shaped.

01:55:4430-ips.

01:55:45Sometimes it was amazing.

01:55:46Yeah.

01:55:47I know it's a fucking nightmare, wasn't it?

01:55:48Yeah.

01:55:49Just the sweat pouring off you.

01:55:51The pressure of that job as a tape-op, I don't think... That job just doesn't exist.

01:55:55No.

01:55:55I think that taught us a lot.

01:55:57some sort of movie called The Tape Hop, you know what I mean?

01:56:00Or a book.

01:56:02It's all about some tape hop and his sagas he had to do.

01:56:06He had to, like, learn for years.

01:56:07And even, like, lining up the tape machines and fucking lining up the Dolby's and, like, syncing using that bloody...

01:56:13Remember, what was it?

01:56:14The Lynx?

01:56:15Yeah.

01:56:16That you used to have to link the tapes together.

01:56:18Offset.

01:56:18Honestly, reverse something.

01:56:20Can I have a reverse reverb before the chorus comes in, please?

01:56:25On the vocal.

01:56:26You know, that enigma.

01:56:28Striping tape.

01:56:29So you'd have to go and work out a calculation.

01:56:31I can't even remember it now to this day.

01:56:33It's just so hard, isn't it?

01:56:35Non-drop frames.

01:56:36Yeah.

01:56:36You simply can't blur it out.

01:56:39It's a lot of mathematics, man.

01:56:41And tones, like putting the tones down on the tape.

01:56:43Yeah, that was torture.

01:56:44Four, nine, nine, four, five, six, plus six.

01:56:46Can't the techie do it?

01:56:47Fuck's sake, man.

01:56:48He gets paid 300 quid, I'm 50.

01:56:50I know.

01:56:51Fuck's sake.

01:56:52Techie, what's he doing having a wank again?

01:56:56The techies pressure in recording studios, trust me, was all he had to do was go, I need to send it off, I can't fix it.

01:57:04That was the pressure, that was off him.

01:57:07I'll send it off to them, they know, I know somebody who can fix this thing, this is not my bag.

01:57:11But what are you doing in the studio then?

01:57:13She'll be able to fix everything.

01:57:15No, no, but, you know, we had some good... Dave Nally was the top.

01:57:19He came from Air, remember him?

01:57:20Keyboard genius.

01:57:22Metal plate in his head.

01:57:24Little, like, alien.

01:57:26Made robots, like, fucking desks and shit.

01:57:28Yeah, like, amazing with simps.

01:57:30He was in Skinny.

01:57:31And then Simon...

01:57:33I still have mates with him, Simon Flynn, who's at Turnkey.

01:57:38Turnkey, you always in Turnkey?

01:57:40Rod.

01:57:41Rod, I love Rod.

01:57:42Rod's great, man.

01:57:43Rod's a good lad.

01:57:44Tried him as well.

01:57:44He was a rocker.

01:57:45He was the only... Oh, I used to get pissed.

01:57:47He was the only like wild...

01:57:48He was actually called Rod Wildman.

01:57:49He was the...

01:57:50Wildest.

01:57:51Most techies are quite like straight and like, you know... Nerdy.

01:57:53Nerdy.

01:57:54They've got like the tech rooms in their garages.

01:57:56He was fucking wilder than all of us.

01:57:58Yeah, yeah.

01:57:59He was wilder than us.

01:58:00I'm not even going to say what you caught him doing I caught him getting I was borrowing stuff off him once To go and do like a 70s You know he's in the 70s Like Rod's got some gear I can wear I hate fancy dress

01:58:11And then I borrowed some stuff and I literally went into his room, borrowed it, went downstairs.

01:58:18That was my house.

01:58:19It was in his bedroom.

01:58:20I went downstairs, showed you guys, Dave and you.

01:58:22It was in your house.

01:58:23Just shared with Rod and Dave.

01:58:25And then I went back up to go, Rod, yeah, I'll have these.

01:58:27And then he's getting his fucking knob sucked by his fucking dirty old girlfriend.

01:58:32Did he have a kid with her?

01:58:33I don't think so.

01:58:35No, he didn't.

01:58:36I don't think so.

01:58:38That was funny times, remember?

01:58:40She was a hairdresser, didn't she?

01:58:42I think Dave set his feet on fire by putting a candle at the bottom of his bed to warm his feet up.

01:58:45Yeah.

01:58:46And he set his bed on fire.

01:58:47Remember we went to Reading Festival?

01:58:50Oh, was that when I was playing with Lodger?

01:58:51Remember the dead body?

01:58:52Yeah, you were playing with the dead body floating in the river.

01:58:55I do remember that, because I was playing with Lodger.

01:58:57Some guy.

01:58:57And we slept in Dave's camper van.

01:58:59Yeah.

01:59:00And who threw up on my fucking clothes?

01:59:02I think I had a spin out.

01:59:04You threw up all over my clothes.

01:59:05I had a lot of alcohol.

01:59:06So that's why we went and got ready.

01:59:07And that's where we see, was there a body floating in the river?

01:59:09There was a body, yeah, floating in the river.

01:59:11It went past.

01:59:13I wasn't tripping on this.

01:59:14Because it was fucking covered in sick.

01:59:16Yeah, yeah, you're chatting in the night.

01:59:17Yeah, me and Dave had the top bunk.

01:59:20It was my cousin Ben, probably.

01:59:21I think your cousin Ben was there.

01:59:22And we sneaked him in and that was all like pressure and hard work.

01:59:25I can't remember now.

01:59:26Did I get you in that festival?

01:59:27I think I got you in there.

01:59:28I think so, yeah.

01:59:29We all got in.

01:59:29He's getting everywhere for now.

01:59:31I know.

01:59:31You used to go, I'm off to fucking Glassdoor, I ain't got any tickets, just climb over.

01:59:35Yeah, yeah.

01:59:37Right, when I used to go, I used to live in London, go to Glassdoor, right, and all you had to do, all I had to do, once I had to go and buy a ticket.

01:59:44And literally, you walked up to the Holloway Road, there was a CND shop sign next door to this thing.

01:59:50You went up the stairs, there was a woman, no queue, nobody bought a ticket.

01:59:53No-one fucking knew, formed social media, and the BBC got there and ruined it all.

01:59:59Like, there's pros and cons.

02:00:01It was getting rougher, it was getting madder, so they had to put the fence up because it was just getting wild.

02:00:07But now...

02:00:09It's just got straight, everyone's off it, but it's straighter in loads of ways.

02:00:13Yeah, yeah.

02:00:14But I do think that just represents, I've always thought since I was a kid, Glastonbury represents Britain.

02:00:21Yeah.

02:00:22And the festival I went to since I was seven, eight, I've seen it since, you know, I remember 1989, I remember seeing, I was seven, 15, I remember staying up all night, my mates tripping, and then these lads coming around, robbing out the tents.

02:00:37And seeing that was happening in 89, and then drug dealers, you know, it's got mad drug dealers, but there was loads of reggae then and stuff.

02:00:45No fucking reggae anymore.

02:00:46It's terrible.

02:00:47There's actually not many black people that are freaking blasphemy.

02:00:50They don't want to go in a muddy field, not daft, or pay a ridiculous price for the ticket, or not be able to get the...

02:00:56It's not got quite middle class on it.

02:00:58Yeah, it's like Hunter Wellies and the...

02:01:00Let's go and have a little walk around Glastonbury.

02:01:03The black people walking around are the artists.

02:01:05Yeah, yeah.

02:01:06Mainly.

02:01:07You know, there's a few odd.

02:01:09I'm not saying everyone.

02:01:10But I'm just saying, like, you know, it's got... Everything's got commercialised.

02:01:15The streets are commercial now.

02:01:17you know, like streets now, like little businesses are gone.

02:01:20Yeah, even the fucking roads, you can't drive down anymore.

02:01:22It's just the same as the festival.

02:01:24Oh, drive down that road, 60 quid fine, drive down that road, it's fucking gone mad.

02:01:28You can't go any streets anymore.

02:01:29You can't, like, you've got to go main...

02:01:31It's just...

02:01:32But what about, like, the music industry as well?

02:01:34Because that's changed a lot since the 90s, since we... Well, you know, like, you know, when we were Rollo and all these thingy days, it's CDs and...

02:01:44Happy days, wasn't it?

02:01:44The final CD.

02:01:45And then the internet got good.

02:01:47It got faster.

02:01:48The laptops, the computer chips got better.

02:01:51Yeah, because I remember we started kind of using logic, didn't we?

02:01:54The studios started to disappear.

02:01:55It all started to switch over.

02:01:56The studios disappeared because the clients weren't coming.

02:01:59The labels weren't putting the money.

02:02:01Because we're like 300 quid, we were like Swan Yard and we're mid-sized.

02:02:05Yeah, yeah, so yeah, hold on, yeah, so I need to do show off and say, you know, I used to earn 300 to 500 quid every day for fucking 10 years with Faithless and, you know, I was smashing it.

02:02:14But, you know, you've got the pressure of a producer, the band members, you've got Rollo and Blissy fighting with each other for nine years, do you know what I mean?

02:02:24In the scrapping and then Maxie coming down, you know, and doing, after having the music.

02:02:30sent to him ages ago, then he hasn't even listened to it until he's got the studio, because he's a proper Jamaica boy, do you know what I mean?

02:02:36Then he was sitting around the studio for two days, watching Maxi write, and Rollo can't fucking handle anything like that.

02:02:45He wants it all now!

02:02:47You know what I mean?

02:02:48And then you're just like, oh, fuck's sake.

02:02:51And you were there the whole fucking time?

02:02:54Dido, Rollo, yeah, exactly.

02:02:56I did three or four albums of Rollo with Faithless, but I did loads of cheeky records.

02:03:00It was all cheeky records.

02:03:01You were doing loads, like all Chrissie's album.

02:03:04Yeah, One Eskimo.

02:03:04That's one of my favourite albums I did.

02:03:07Dusty, Dido stuff.

02:03:09I remember you did a load of the Dido stuff.

02:03:11Yeah.

02:03:13What was that?

02:03:14There was another guy as well.

02:03:15You did loads of albums.

02:03:16Marlon Rudette.

02:03:17Peanut.

02:03:18Marlon Rudette, Peanut, Rob D.

02:03:21I don't know, I've got the fucking thing on the computer somewhere, what I've done.

02:03:25I don't know.

02:03:26Well, that's like me, I'll find a track.

02:03:29I don't care.

02:03:30I'll find a song.

02:03:31Because you know what, it doesn't fucking matter what you've done, it's what you did last week, it's what your last mix was.

02:03:36Fuck your fucking pack, you know what I mean?

02:03:38I don't know.

02:03:39You've still got to have talent.

02:03:41The thing is, I think your talent stands up if you've done a lot of things.

02:03:45No, I'm still working, going, fucking hell, this is shit.

02:03:49But then next minute, I have a day of rest, two days, I'm like, fuck, man, I banged that out.

02:03:53That's actually banging.

02:03:55Thank God I took my time.

02:03:56And how's it changed with the Hempstead?

02:03:58It's like getting music to be listened to now, it's hard.

02:04:02Yeah, I mean...

02:04:03I mean, it's easier to get it to listen to, you put it on Spotify.

02:04:05My band, we have to go on tour, we have to do gigs, and with the album coming out, with a bit of...

02:04:11everything else going like the old, you know, I still believe a little bit in the old way, word of mouth, that one song will just, hopefully, you know, I think my love to sing's out of a million, over a million, you know, but, you know, I want a hundred million, and fucking what does a million do?

02:04:24I can't, I haven't seen fuck all.

02:04:27skin to it I tell you after all that career all this work on the albums it's like honestly since lockdown it's like is this just a freaking good hobby is this what it's turned to do you know what I mean but it isn't I'm not giving up because I'm not a giver-upper do you know what I mean I want it to be my you know yeah exactly I just want I want to get loads of money playing live when we was in the 90s you could

02:04:53It was a lot easier to make money in the studio.

02:04:55And it was less bands trying to do it, because there was less bands who were... Less people could do it.

02:04:59Yeah, exactly.

02:05:00You had to actually fucking have some talent and skill and learn things.

02:05:04No, a computer can do all of it for you.

02:05:07I remember being up north, people used to take the...

02:05:09I remember walking around with a guitar and getting punched.

02:05:12Yeah.

02:05:12And I'd just sit out on the fucking door.

02:05:14Like, what do you do?

02:05:15I'm on the door.

02:05:15If you said you're a musician, they'd be like, oh, you're a fucking musician, you know what I mean?

02:05:19What's wrong with you?

02:05:19You know?

02:05:21You'd get loads of shit just for being a...

02:05:23I used to say I was a musician.

02:05:25And everyone would say, that's not a job, that's not a proper job.

02:05:28You can't be a musician.

02:05:29You have to work in a bank or a factory or something.

02:05:31Do you know what I mean?

02:05:33Yeah.

02:05:33But it kind of could.

02:05:35I think there was something about that second summer alone.

02:05:38We've done three hours, five minutes.

02:05:40What the fuck?

02:05:41Fucking yak it in.

02:05:42Fucking hell, Dredd.

02:05:44I know.

02:05:44That's amazing.

02:05:46Honestly, that felt like 20 minutes.

02:05:47I'm like, because in my head now, I'm going, okay, should we do part two?

02:05:52Yeah.

02:05:52Because there's so much still to fucking chat.

02:05:54I know.

02:05:55Do you know what I mean?

02:05:56Like, I haven't even got, I'm just missing, like, there's just so much to chat about.

02:06:00But three hours, because I'm thinking, we've gone deep into the first half, and now...

02:06:05missing out quite the engineering side and should we stop it a sec pause it a sec and then we're back oh cup of tea cup of tea cup of tea and another and a joint that's what we've got well martin hasn't but i have you've got a cup of tea i'm good well i'm not good so yeah hold on so where were we at then i don't know now

02:06:33But I forgot to mention Grammy nominated 2010.

02:06:39Grammy nominated 2010, like, but didn't win nothing.

02:06:44Didn't get your Grammy.

02:06:45Didn't get nothing.

02:06:46You're nominated, though.

02:06:48Nominated, but best non-classical, best sounding non-classical.

02:06:55mixed album or some other song, I can't remember now.

02:06:59It was in LA, I remember that.

02:07:00It was in LA and I got up and looked on the internet and went, I'm going back to bed now.

02:07:06I'm going back to bed and fuck my Mexican chick.

02:07:14Oh, fucking remorse.

02:07:17Right, so let's talk a little bit about actual...

02:07:19Sound engineering?

02:07:21Or like microphone technique?

02:07:25Microphone, I don't fucking know, man.

02:07:27What's your favourite mic for that?

02:07:28Well, first of all, I just, I'm like, I love mixing.

02:07:32I love, like my...

02:07:33I know you're the mixing engineer.

02:07:34My forte is...

02:07:37Finishing a song.

02:07:39I do love that whole hard-ass journey To the top of you know finishing that song through thick and thin work emotions with the artist and or me And putting my little flag on the top and going fucking done now.

02:07:53It wasn't that easy.

02:07:55I wasn't that hard You know, I don't know.

02:07:57I just got this thing about

02:07:59that because all 12 years with rollo mixing mixing mixing mixing mixing mixing like making sounds mixing you know like section sections mixing and you're mixing more like it's kind of like writing in it it kind of adds it's like it can yeah exactly that's why i was getting off at all these points yeah exactly and i'll record in now well now i've got this studio here and i've built my live room i've bought all my mics like i've got a drum kit now just set up

02:08:29Got a mic desk set up, going straight into the computer, an Amec BC3.

02:08:37Got it at the bottom of this church in Edinburgh.

02:08:39It's fucking brilliant.

02:08:41And I have all the mic ties going from next door into my mic desk.

02:08:44And that goes direct out of each channel into my computer's input, like balanced input.

02:08:51So I get the mic pre of the Amec.

02:08:54And then I've got my two BC2s, which are from Match of the Day.

02:08:58So Match of the Day, which is a football thing I've been watching.

02:09:00It's been around since Dot.

02:09:02I've been watching since I was a kid.

02:09:05These were the submixes in Match of the Day.

02:09:07And basically it all went digital.

02:09:09I can't remember how many years ago now.

02:09:11and they cut them, this guy basically cut them out, you know, he's getting paid to empty the room in studios.

02:09:18It's on the actual thing.

02:09:20Studio TC5, TV center.

02:09:23It's been, these desks have been to loads of Olympics.

02:09:27And the summing mixers, to me, they've got a bit of EQ, but I don't really use the EQ too much on them.

02:09:34But...

02:09:35They've got two buses each channel and the left and right stereo channels, which is a nightmare for... Every compressor has to be sort of stereo.

02:09:43Stereo.

02:09:44You know, I want the 1178, not the 1176.

02:09:46Yeah, yeah.

02:09:47I'll use the 1176 to go on the mic channel to record.

02:09:50But not on the master, on the insert.

02:09:52Yeah, or I might put it on the lead vocal, you know, at the end or whatever, but...

02:09:57So what would be a vocal chain for you?

02:09:59Vocal chain for me would maybe be the SM7B.

02:10:04like for rapping or for like, I don't know, it just seems to be really good.

02:10:08It's rock, isn't it?

02:10:10A lot of people, Michael Jackson used it.

02:10:11Exactly, it just gets rid of all that bottom end.

02:10:13Yeah.

02:10:14What you think you don't really, you know, if these are for clubs, the bottom end is just like, oh my God.

02:10:21I remember going, like we used to like, with Rollo, we used to work on a track, put it down Friday, get it quickly mastered at Exchange or, I can't remember, or, yeah,

02:10:35in Chiswick Metropolis and then Blissy would be DJing Friday night the gallery in Turnmills Paul Toll, they had a studio up there as well, I remember going there so me and Rollo used to go there, going right in the middle of the fucking dance floor

02:10:52and we'd know she'd be playing it now because we'd be in the DJ, but we'd play it now and we'd go in the middle.

02:10:57We'd go in the middle, I remember going in the middle.

02:11:01I'd recorded, I think I'd used a U40, because Maxi was really good with a U47.

02:11:0447-foot.

02:11:05Yeah, exactly, he was good with that.

02:11:07But they're fat.

02:11:09And then there was that Neumann we got in the end, that big one with the cradle that came out in 2000, what Dido loved, it wasn't a U. I know which one you mean.

02:11:16I fucking can't remember the name.

02:11:17I didn't give a shit about it.

02:11:18I'm terrible with names.

02:11:19Terrible with names of songs, by the way.

02:11:21It's help.

02:11:22I'm good.

02:11:22I know all equipment names, really, because I'm just, yeah, a bit of a geeky sort of thing.

02:11:27I love buying stuff, but not really.

02:11:31I'm not bothered.

02:11:32I just don't think it means too much.

02:11:34I don't know.

02:11:36I'm just dyslexic as well, probably, and not confident with names and words.

02:11:40I fucking hate school.

02:11:44I didn't have one GCSE, I didn't pass nothing.

02:11:50Walking, nothing, I stuck my fingers up and went, fuck off.

02:11:53Get away, get out, get out of my life.

02:11:56What were you saying, you were saying something about standing in the middle of the thing, middle of the dance floor with the tunes.

02:12:03Oh yeah, so yeah, sorry, back of Rollo, yeah.

02:12:06And then Max, and then all of a sudden Max's voice come in, and it'd be this, oh my God, the bottom end from his vocal.

02:12:12So from then on...

02:12:14It's like I just cut.

02:12:14Fucking filter.

02:12:16Cut it.

02:12:18Just cut 170, 160, 180, 190.

02:12:20You know what I mean?

02:12:21Just cut it.

02:12:22Because, you know, maybe, you know, it's only going to just be for something.

02:12:27Yeah, a nice little jazz thing at home.

02:12:28Yeah, exactly.

02:12:29But not like, no.

02:12:31Yeah, big fucking club, really loud.

02:12:33You don't want that.

02:12:34And it was just like.

02:12:35Like, oh, my God.

02:12:38I was so embarrassed of myself.

02:12:41You live and you learn, don't you?

02:12:42You're learning every day.

02:12:44I'm still learning all the time now.

02:12:46It's one of these types of arts.

02:12:47You kind of have to relearn because everything's computers now.

02:12:51It's what I find quite mad is...

02:12:53Songs are songs still.

02:12:54But you get your computer up and you've got an 1176 that we used to use in the studio with our hands.

02:13:00It's kind of in the computer, sort of.

02:13:02It's mad, isn't it?

02:13:03I do.

02:13:04Almost like nearly on every Logic track I use, I have an SSL.

02:13:09G channel you were the master of the SSL yeah because I just exactly that's what you grew up on so I just know exactly what these everything you know that's why it's good is it any good but then you know sometimes I put plugins on and I'm like yeah it's wicked and then I go let's have listen to it off and then put it the volume match the volume because remember you get tricked all the time with volume levels and you think oh my god it's better it's just because it's turned up yeah and it's worse fucking turn them take them plugins off you

02:13:39for the shit do you know what I mean because sometimes it's just yeah I get that all the time we've just watched the Beatles ting our fucking you know I don't know how they've mixed it now what we heard then but when they were mixing back then you've seen the equipment they had yeah

02:13:53Do you know what I mean?

02:13:54It was about the mic technique, sort of.

02:13:57Couple of nice mics.

02:13:58I mean, they had everything.

02:14:00They had the best everything.

02:14:01Yeah.

02:14:01It wasn't like they were doing it on SM7Bs.

02:14:05No, they were nowmans.

02:14:0667s, aren't they, all over it?

02:14:08Yeah, you know, just... And 47s.

02:14:13Yeah, 67s, 47s.

02:14:19But that was good about Trident.

02:14:20I fucking used to love their mic set up there.

02:14:23God, they had...

02:14:23It was like Christmas.

02:14:25It was the two drawers, wasn't it, in the side of the live room?

02:14:27Metal drawers.

02:14:29Bomb-proof, they were, and there was a key.

02:14:32But I remember being on the session with Incognito, right?

02:14:35And so then this is when I've left downstairs, still carrying on down there in the Trinity and Sour Records madness.

02:14:43And then I was up in this posher madness sort of, you know.

02:14:47More, you know, like to the, you know, like...

02:14:49Anyway, and then I'd set up the mic for somebody to...

02:14:55It was a guitar amp, I think.

02:14:57And then I put this Neumann U87 on the guitar ramp with a 57 or something and the 87 back a bit.

02:15:05Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:15:06And then in the dead room on the right, so you couldn't see, like the other one you can see, the glass through.

02:15:12Yeah, yeah, yeah, you couldn't see.

02:15:13But this one you couldn't see and there was another door.

02:15:15from Bluey's studio, like down that corridor before he went up the stairs, wasn't there?

02:15:19Yeah, yeah.

02:15:20Where you could go into that live room as well, double door.

02:15:24And basically it was, who was it?

02:15:26It was either Smiley Culture or Daddy Freddy was downstairs.

02:15:31And they came up and I came and we were like, we're going to go and record because we tested it and everything.

02:15:38Went to go and then we were busy doing something else.

02:15:40Went to go and record.

02:15:42He's like, hey, where's it gone?

02:15:45And then I go into the live room, it's like the mic's gone.

02:15:48In the middle, just like in a few minutes of setting it up, I'll have ten, five minutes, they've sneaked in from downstairs, come in and robbed us, Mike.

02:16:00I remember that incident.

02:16:02Fucking hell, who was there?

02:16:03Was Ange there?

02:16:04Huh?

02:16:05Was Ange there?

02:16:05Well done, did we say about the... LAUGHTER

02:16:07Angie, yeah, everyone was there, but did we say about the dats, wiping the dats?

02:16:10Did I even fucking finish that?

02:16:12I thought if you even finished that... Fuck's sake!

02:16:16Ah!

02:16:17Shit, that just come to me.

02:16:18Quick, quick, quick, the dats.

02:16:20Die, Don, the dats.

02:16:22This is how random I am, man.

02:16:23Keep up, keep up.

02:16:26The dat machine assisting back in... No, Swan Yard.

02:16:30Just before I was becoming an engineer with Rollo.

02:16:32Don't know how he'd give me the job after that.

02:16:34But me and him wiped the desk, wiped the outboard, pulled the patches, and thank God my recalls were good then.

02:16:43But...

02:16:44So there was one DAT machine, died all his life-or-rent record of.

02:16:49It was last day of the session.

02:16:51It was Gertz who hated me, who fucking hated me.

02:16:55Because I got on better and I didn't know, and he just didn't, I don't know, we had this clash and he was a little grassy little fuck-off.

02:17:03and then um and uh he was too like rigid it was quite rigid yeah yeah but he was good he's a good and he's a very good engineer knows what he's doing he's like a little scientist you know what i mean but uh he had his yeah anyway try to get me sacked a few hours but no one can sack the gripper um uh so yeah i've gone in the sony machines are in this little light area i put the

02:17:29I've basically, you know, I said you put the master in the top one, the bottom one's where you put the safety, so it's a blank one.

02:17:35Sorry, yeah, you make a safety, a copy always.

02:17:40So I basically, this one time, I did it many times, this DAP machine thing.

02:17:48And this one night, I basically put the safety in the master, and I put the master in the safety.

02:17:58And then I just pressed play record, just went off and did my last bit of cleaning.

02:18:03I want to get home.

02:18:03I want to see my boy.

02:18:04Well, really, I don't know.

02:18:07I just want to get home.

02:18:08And then I go back.

02:18:10And then I'm like...

02:18:11and I always listened to it.

02:18:13You just always, we got taught, you had to listen to it.

02:18:15There's like a proper routine of everything.

02:18:17Yeah, exactly.

02:18:18Yeah, so we had to like, once you've done that, you go back and quickly listen to it, make sure it's just recorded.

02:18:22And I'm like, oh, fuck.

02:18:24It was blank.

02:18:26I absolutely shit my pants.

02:18:29And there's no backup because it wasn't on half inch was it?

02:18:32It was done.

02:18:33And it was girts and the horror, the dread.

02:18:35And we just broke everything down.

02:18:37The dread of everything.

02:18:38And you know what?

02:18:39Thank the universe, thank anything, I don't remember about God and Jesus and all that.

02:18:46But thank you that there was no session for like once.

02:18:50There was always a session.

02:18:51It was like nearly, you know, there was no session that day.

02:18:53Yeah.

02:18:54So I could basically...

02:18:58get the recall back up with help.

02:19:01And it was Summit not right.

02:19:03And it was the VCAs.

02:19:04There was Summit with the VCAs on the channel.

02:19:07I wasn't quite used to that, I don't know.

02:19:09But there was Summit, I had to set the VCAs.

02:19:13And that's all I had to do.

02:19:14So I had to actually ring Gertz and spill the beans.

02:19:18And Michelle was cool.

02:19:20She had a horror, but it was as long as I did it.

02:19:22So we got the recall back and I did it.

02:19:25We did it without...

02:19:26anyone been there like we just bussy put it down rollo came in was like oh my god but then he helped and then that was that basically so it was all right in the end i was very lucky there was no session and well anyway we could have just recalled it another day

02:19:43Yeah, it's a good job we're doing it.

02:19:44Well, I remember Kylie Minogue coming in.

02:19:47I remember she used to literally lean onto the SSL with her arse sticking out.

02:19:54We all know Kylie Minogue has probably got the best arse in the world.

02:19:58All the boys were just like... No-one cared about the music at that point.

02:20:02It was just her arse.

02:20:05You know, just little things like that.

02:20:06I remember Findi Quay coming on his second album after he's had his Mercury Prize.

02:20:13And he's had all his thing.

02:20:14And then he came in.

02:20:15That was at Swan Yard, wasn't it?

02:20:15That was with Pete Craigie.

02:20:16And he came in to do his second album, Swan Yard, after coming to Trident.

02:20:20Because Pete Craigie loved us a lot as well, the assistants, didn't he?

02:20:23the looseness of Trident more suited him and then Swan Yard and so yeah and Pete Craig is in with, and I'm like what?

02:20:32Back in with Finlay Quay?

02:20:34Can't wait, I haven't seen him for ages Oh my god, the ego from hell the ego, count ego and you know what, it was the only time ever in my life I said I'm going to give up this fucking music industry he was basically so horrible to everybody then his girlfriend came in you know, I was like, I'm not going to do that I was like, I'm not going to do that

02:20:54what was her name, Chelsea Crystal, I can't remember now, and then he went even worse.

02:21:00And then he literally, you know, everyone in at 11 and he doesn't turn up at 5, 6.

02:21:09You know, what a money, get me weed.

02:21:10It was just like, what?

02:21:12Where's this nice lad from Edinburgh?

02:21:14And then he'd go in the vocal booth, I swear, Dan, he walked out of the room, Studio One.

02:21:19into the live room where you could see him.

02:21:21Yeah, yeah.

02:21:22Got on the mic and I swear down, his first lyric was, don't be negative, be positive.

02:21:29Right?

02:21:29And I just went, no.

02:21:34I don't like this industry.

02:21:35You weren't the thing in the taxi that night.

02:21:37I remember that was there.

02:21:38Yeah, he had to smoke a spliff in the taxi and the taxi wouldn't take him.

02:21:41Yeah, I remember that.

02:21:42And he's kicking off, wasn't he?

02:21:44But anyway, you know, that's like a bit negative, you know, not negative, but it's just people get...

02:21:50start believing, they start pooing in the toilet in the morning, looking at it going, fucking hell, that's amazing.

02:21:56And you just start...

02:21:59I don't know if it's where we've come from or what, but we've never been like that.

02:22:03And that's why we're good engineers as well, because we're like, we don't listen to boring shit.

02:22:09You're kind of a big part of engineering for anyone who might want to be an engineer who's listening.

02:22:17and maybe wants to learn it and they think they're going to learn it by a course or something.

02:22:22A big part of it is you've got to get on with people.

02:22:24You've really got to get on with people, and if you do, that's a big part of it, isn't it?

02:22:28Yeah.

02:22:29You get on with people and you do a good job.

02:22:30Get on and do exactly.

02:22:32And you have a laugh and you work hard and you get on with it.

02:22:34And the people there can trust you.

02:22:37Then that counts for a lot, man.

02:22:39And it's not just about knowing the gear.

02:22:42There's loads of people that we've seen go through studios that know about all the gear and they've got all this technical shit, but they just don't have the vibe.

02:22:50They're not cool people.

02:22:51Yeah, exactly.

02:22:54Do you know what I mean?

02:22:56So what about, just to wrap this up.

02:22:58No, no, I'm not saying wrap it up.

02:23:00I was just making sure it was recording still.

02:23:02Yeah, yeah, still recording.

02:23:03I'm cool.

02:23:03I'm chill.

02:23:05It's like, you know, we've still got a bit to do.

02:23:07You know, you could do two parts if you wanted.

02:23:09Look, I'm going to do another one at some point.

02:23:12Yeah.

02:23:14Pure hempolics.

02:23:15Yeah.

02:23:16Deep into writing and, you know.

02:23:18Yeah, I think that would be really cool.

02:23:19The process of, like, I don't know, because now I'm trying to, like, you do that and then you get that and you're like, okay, I want to try it.

02:23:26Now I'm trying to do stuff with no drums, like some stuff like... Just starting it up?

02:23:30Yeah, vocals, some little click thing, but just a bass, like maybe try to put a bass in or something.

02:23:38When you're songwriting these, there's you forming it mostly on your own to start with now?

02:23:43Yeah, mainly, yeah.

02:23:45The music, yeah.

02:23:46Sort of, yeah, no, I mean some... No, so, what's on the second album, Play On, I let...

02:23:54The bass player, the guitarist and the drummer do that.

02:24:01I wrote the chorus lyric with Nubia to a tune and then I was like, you know what?

02:24:06I want a different type of music.

02:24:08Yeah, yeah.

02:24:09And I want the band to be involved.

02:24:12So then I said, go on, start something, see what you come with.

02:24:15And I liked it.

02:24:16And I was like, Colin, we could put that on the album.

02:24:17That's good.

02:24:18Yeah.

02:24:19And then the enemy was like the drummer.

02:24:23me and the drummer did some drum sessions just talking and going right let's try these drums this type of drum at this tempo and we did quite we did about four of them five of them and then i get then i go then it's like bring you know try to get the bass line try to do some keys work out what the drums are telling you

02:24:42what the chord should be it'd be really nice wouldn't it do it like that thing like get in a room it's like lyrics but with music you like to me it's like it's just all fitting in this mathematical pattern in a way i mean it's like weird with with with the soul i mean like did you really get into the lyrics don't you yeah i do i can get into lyrics yeah i wrote early in the morning with one eskimo

02:25:10I've done all the high and gritty lyrics are just about mine.

02:25:14The one about the true story about going to Mexico with my girlfriend.

02:25:18I'm proud of hell is them lyrics.

02:25:19It's a good song.

02:25:20Yeah.

02:25:22I don't know.

02:25:22Just, you know what?

02:25:23It's just from listening and being around music and Shaken Stevens.

02:25:28Shaken Stevens.

02:25:29I remember he used to make me know Shaken Stevens.

02:25:31Yeah.

02:25:32I know his son.

02:25:33I know his son.

02:25:34I was working with James, Dean, sorry.

02:25:37Dean James Barrett, and I was working with him for years down the dairy with Craig Dodd, who's a good mate, and Dean became a good mate.

02:25:43And then Dean, he had a studio in Shoreditch at one point, went to see him one night, and he had this one afternoon, and he had this CD on the table.

02:25:52Two or three Shaken Stevens, I was like, Shaken Stevens?

02:25:55Because, you know, when I was three, I used to put my denim jacket and collars up.

02:25:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:26:00Because I loved Elvis a little bit, you know.

02:26:03But, yeah, and then Shaky and Stephen, there he is there with a CD.

02:26:07And I was like, what's going on there?

02:26:08And he's like, oh, here's my dad.

02:26:09I'm like, I've known you years.

02:26:12Are you fucking kidding me?

02:26:14The son of Shaky, I bow down to you.

02:26:17No, you know, Shaky didn't write anything, did he?

02:26:21He was a theatre show guy.

02:26:23Crazy.

02:26:25He was kind of an Elvis impersonator.

02:26:27Yeah, exactly.

02:26:28Kind of did Ronnie back in the day.

02:26:30But, you know, he would have got something.

02:26:33you know, advances and stuff.

02:26:37Yeah, music industry, though, oh, God, you know.

02:26:40It's just, it's hard now, isn't it?

02:26:42It's hard to kind of... Just like the middle of some studios and stuff.

02:26:45McDonald's music, isn't it, now?

02:26:46It's just like everything's... You watch that Beatles thing we watch, and it sounds like I'm moaning about it, and I'm not trying to be negative.

02:26:53I'm sure there's some fucking ace bands.

02:26:54There is ace bands.

02:26:55There is some brilliant stuff.

02:26:56But they just don't get through, you know?

02:26:58I mean you've got like, and I don't like to jump on the Well every festival just carries, every festival books somebody from the past They never give the new, you know what I mean?

02:27:08It's always just like, back in the day it was new The latest band, the headliners Now it's just like, let's just get it safe, you know, we get the tickets It's just gone wrong And even like trying to sell records is impossible You sell a thousand now, you're lucky Yeah You know

02:27:28Actually making a living out of putting a record out, used to be in the 90s when I used to do it, it was easy.

02:27:34It wasn't easy, but you could make a decent living out of it.

02:27:35Yeah, you could, yeah.

02:27:37But actually putting vinyl out.

02:27:39A thousand vinyls, you'd be all right.

02:27:41I should have been an artist years ago instead of now.

02:27:45Back in the 90s.

02:27:46But the singer on band, I have quite a few singers, Nubia, Dan, Harry and Corey.

02:27:52They're the sort of core, but a lot of the time it's Nubia and just Dan.

02:27:58Nubia's, I met her and she's my son's girlfriend, which is quite good.

02:28:05Keeps it in the family.

02:28:07Yes, good, yeah.

02:28:08Like they live together, they're proper in love.

02:28:11For now, no.

02:28:13You know, I think they're going to be a long time.

02:28:14Been together ages anyway.

02:28:16But yeah, it's just funny, yeah.

02:28:18And Paul, because there's a family, you know that.

02:28:20You know, it's always been my mates, you know.

02:28:23Nick Rhodes, who are lads.

02:28:25I was going to ring him.

02:28:26I was thinking of ringing him.

02:28:27It was his birthday yesterday.

02:28:28Big up, Nick.

02:28:29I'll get hold of your son.

02:28:31I will.

02:28:32I should ring him.

02:28:33Try and ring him, yeah, and then tell him I'm going to ring him.

02:28:37You did a podcast with me because he did the original keyboards for the Hempollocks But I sort of tortured him Was he a thingy?

02:28:45I tortured him on tour Back in the day?

02:28:47Huh?

02:28:47You tortured him on tour?

02:28:48Yeah because then you know when like Faithless had recorded the gig And then you'd play, I'd get the

02:28:53the audio back and it'd be like, what's he playing?

02:28:55You're not even playing now, are you?

02:28:57I'm too busy on my fucking daft shit.

02:28:59And then I'm realising he's got his two shan to play anything.

02:29:04Do you know what I mean?

02:29:04He's like, hardly anything played on the songs, you know what I mean?

02:29:08And he's like, amazing.

02:29:10You know what I mean?

02:29:12That was a laugh that tall, wasn't it?

02:29:13Yeah, it was.

02:29:13You know what?

02:29:14All these things were like, it's hard work, it's a knackering.

02:29:18It's knackery, it's hard work, you're, like, tripping from it.

02:29:21But, my God, like, when you look back, it's... Part of your life you wouldn't forget.

02:29:26I love...

02:29:27Even now, like, we do big... Like, there's big shows sometimes, or you... You know, and you're like... You just feel like you're miles apart from each other.

02:29:36You're just going through the motions of the thing.

02:29:40But when you're closer together, like, you see the Beatles when they were playing, it was all close.

02:29:45Because you just feel each other more.

02:29:47And I just love these smaller gigs.

02:29:49Yeah, but really close up.

02:29:51200 people.

02:29:51300 people.

02:29:53Yeah.

02:29:54It's just fucking banging.

02:29:55I mean, yeah, obviously you don't, you know, massive, massive shows as well.

02:29:59But the in-between ones are not as...

02:30:01I quite like them little, like the Cobden Club and the little tiny ones that we...

02:30:05I mean, they're just buzzing with the buzzing sound.

02:30:07Remember when we used to rehearse and then everyone would come and just hang out in the rehearsal room and watch us?

02:30:11Yeah.

02:30:11They'd be all like... Where's that crazy place we rehearsed?

02:30:14We only went there because we could smoke weed.

02:30:17That's the only reason I paid that money.

02:30:18It was that one where, like... That lad, the mad lad, they're all in caulk and storming in.

02:30:23Yeah, but they used to come in and watch us rehearse all night because we were kicking ass.

02:30:28Yeah, then you had seven babies.

02:30:31Now what did you have?

02:30:32You just had loads of kids didn't you?

02:30:34And then you went to uni, well you did your gym, not gym, your personal training wasn't it?

02:30:41Yeah.

02:30:43Yeah.

02:30:43Shit.

02:30:43I know, I was always doing other shit.

02:30:46And now what have you done?

02:30:47I've studied MA in music.

02:30:49So I don't even know what that means.

02:30:51Masters?

02:30:52Yeah.

02:30:52Right.

02:30:55Which is why I did this.

02:30:57Congratulations.

02:30:57When did that finish?

02:31:00September, October, something like that.

02:31:02Right, fucking hell.

02:31:04PhD next.

02:31:05Oh, good luck to me.

02:31:06Jesus Christ.

02:31:08Go on, Boris.

02:31:09Boris Johnson.

02:31:11From the Alves of the States in Manchester.

02:31:13Yeah.

02:31:15Yeah.

02:31:16I know, it's funny, isn't it, man?

02:31:18Didn't your mum know, or didn't you know the woman who wrote Rita Soon Bob 2?

02:31:22Oh, yeah, my mum.

02:31:23What was that story?

02:31:24Yeah, I think she talked like there was a shadow.

02:31:27Which is amazing film.

02:31:29Rita Sue and Bob Too, check it out.

02:31:30Proper Britain.

02:31:31Yeah.

02:31:32All them, like, Kez.

02:31:34Kez, Rita Sue, East is East, is it?

02:31:36No, Rita and Me.

02:31:38And then Shane Meadows sort of took over later on.

02:31:40I love Dead Man's Shoes.

02:31:42Yeah, Dead Man's Shoes.

02:31:43Room for Romeo Brass as well.

02:31:45Oh, my God.

02:31:45But Kez is like what school was like when I was a kid.

02:31:47Room for Romeo Brass is like Anita and Me.

02:31:49It's a bit like that, but with black and white instead of Indian.

02:31:53Why?

02:31:54Is it Pakistani?

02:31:55I can't remember what she was in.

02:31:56Do you know Pakistani?

02:31:57Anyway.

02:31:59But great English fricking movie.

02:32:01I love movies as well, yeah.

02:32:04I just love movies.

02:32:06I've done always, because they've got sound.

02:32:08They've got music on them.

02:32:09Do you know what I mean?

02:32:10Even though we were like...

02:32:12musicians and engineers and producers and like most of the time that's not what we talked about we just did it as work didn't we yeah we were like into it fully and we were there when we were doing it yeah but we just fuck around and see you don't play football yeah three times a week we play football yeah yeah you should play five aside us play five aside all the time everyone who ever came in the studio had been playing football had to play football with us rollo loved it before he got too old he used to love it wasn't he a cheat you

02:32:42Remember, he did not like losing.

02:32:44It's funny, isn't it?

02:32:45And we were like who we were in the studio and in our lives.

02:32:48We were the same people on the pitch.

02:32:52I remember everyone throwing up.

02:32:53Curtis, yeah, me throwing up.

02:32:54I used to get heated legs and then just go... Everyone would be throwing up the side of the pitch.

02:32:59Curtis waddling and then having a little spurt and then doing nothing.

02:33:03Gavin going wild.

02:33:04Wild Irish Gavin.

02:33:06Yeah, wild Irish Gavin.

02:33:08Fowling everyone.

02:33:08Wants to show everyone.

02:33:11Irish are the best.

02:33:12We'll talk about it.

02:33:13I'd love to see Gavin.

02:33:14I haven't seen him for years.

02:33:15He's on the new, well, Mr Tommy, the flute he played on Mr Tommy is on the new record.

02:33:19Is it?

02:33:20Yeah.

02:33:21So he's on the new record?

02:33:22Yeah, he's going to be on the new record.

02:33:23Do you remember how he said his surname?

02:33:25Callaghan or Gallaghan?

02:33:26It's Callaghan, I think.

02:33:28I need to know it.

02:33:28I need to remember.

02:33:29I need to get his proper name so I can put it on.

02:33:33I might just put me, but Gripper, so I get the PPL.

02:33:40See, that's a whole other story, all these people, mate, the amount of albums I've done and like, program shit, and then it's like, where's my PPL?

02:33:47You're fucking kidding me.

02:33:48Yeah, they'd have it mentioned on the fucking album.

02:33:50Yeah, you know, like, yeah.

02:33:51It's funny, isn't it, how people forget to put your name, you forget to credit your name.

02:33:55I've had that loads on records, like, oh, I've played on that.

02:33:57I think the worst one, the worst thing, well, a few faithless things, but I've been hit hard with money, but.

02:34:04I did a Marlon Rudette album, right?

02:34:06And he was Matterfix, right?

02:34:07And then he became Marlon Rudette.

02:34:09They're not really big in England, but they were in Germany.

02:34:12And he'd been around the world and basically wanted to be a solo artist.

02:34:16And he went around the world meeting all these different producers and he had these dodgy demos, dodgy demos, really rough demos.

02:34:25And then, you know, we hired...

02:34:28Craig Dodd and it was the Brixen Studio, the dairy, and we hired that.

02:34:39I was 30 days and I think I only had two days off or three days off.

02:34:46We just went hard on this album.

02:34:47We lived and breathed it.

02:34:48Just me and Marlon and his manager would come in and it was all these different musics from all around the world.

02:34:55Anyway, I went hard.

02:34:57I helped him a lot.

02:34:58and I programmed two tunes and a proper, you know, and the room was really hard to mix in.

02:35:05It was just a little, it was just not a good room of mixing, but I somehow did it.

02:35:11and helped him with all the sections, helped him with the sort of what should be in and out and all like that and then they were like we're going to give you a point on this album and then halfway through it and then the last day I think I finished and then they're like the manager coming he's like no we can't give you a point

02:35:33And I was fucking pissed off, right?

02:35:35And then they tried to screw me with money.

02:35:36Instead of 300 quid a day, they give me 150 quid a day, right?

02:35:43And this went on to be a hit album.

02:35:47Like, it was number one in Germany for 12 weeks, but they're one of the worst songs on the album to me.

02:35:53It was fucking awful.

02:35:55Who did he write it with?

02:35:56His famous, I don't know, Robbie Williams.

02:35:59I can't remember now.

02:36:00It'll come to me, but to me it was crap.

02:36:03But, you know, to me, the crap stuff always is the ones what does the best.

02:36:08You need a studio gun.

02:36:09Because it's just like, I've just not been brought up listening to shit.

02:36:12I'm sorry.

02:36:13So then the next minute, it's fucking number one.

02:36:15Yeah, and then the next minute, it's number one.

02:36:17So then, basically, that was number one.

02:36:19I've seen him in Ibiza on the beach with a big cigar.

02:36:22Doesn't have to work again.

02:36:23Do you know what I mean?

02:36:24Like, he smashed it, that album, in Germany.

02:36:27Germany's bigger than England.

02:36:29And his album went number one for weeks and weeks and I should have had a point on it.

02:36:33I did.

02:36:34And it got taken off me for no reason except they want the greedy.

02:36:39Yeah.

02:36:41And they want it all for themselves.

02:36:43And that happens a lot.

02:36:44Because it's all in the moment, you see.

02:36:45All this shit's in the moment.

02:36:47One lesson that I still haven't learned is get it fucking in an email and signed.

02:36:51Yeah, yeah, before you fucking sign.

02:36:53Because it's hard, because it's embarrassing.

02:36:55Yeah, because you can't work in it.

02:36:57It's not my vibe, that sort of thing.

02:36:58Like, let's talk about, I'm not a money man.

02:37:02Never have been.

02:37:03You know what I mean?

02:37:05It's not a contract.

02:37:09I'm managing.

02:37:12What contract have you got?

02:37:13Never will have.

02:37:15You know, it's trust and a handshake.

02:37:16It's old school.

02:37:18You know?

02:37:21I'm a fucking 25th generation ancestor of William Wallace, motherfucker.

02:37:25Oh, man, you told me about that.

02:37:28Direct.

02:37:30Direct.

02:37:31No, but, you know, just rebel.

02:37:32My dad was a freaking rebel.

02:37:33My granddad was a bit of a rebel.

02:37:36Just got rebel.

02:37:37Rebel blood.

02:37:38Yeah, it's crazy.

02:37:40It's mad how you ended up sort of in professional studios.

02:37:42I'm a drug dealer to a studio.

02:37:46But yeah, you know me, even when I was assistant, I was fucking selling weed.

02:37:52I see the camera.

02:37:53All right, it's him.

02:37:55Right, yeah.

02:37:55Does anyone want a cup of tea?

02:37:57Run out.

02:37:58Because I'm a fucking skint man.

02:37:59I've got a kid.

02:38:00I need to hustle a bit.

02:38:01Get some money.

02:38:01My weed habit is so big.

02:38:02I used to come and get weed off you.

02:38:04Yeah.

02:38:04That guy from Wham.

02:38:05What?

02:38:06Yeah, Wham.

02:38:07George Michael.

02:38:09That was like the... George Michael did a few sessions and I was on the assistant.

02:38:13I got him some weed.

02:38:15Made the most money I'd ever made on the weed.

02:38:18But it was really good weed.

02:38:19Didn't give him shit weed.

02:38:21But I made double the money.

02:38:24Too right.

02:38:24He's a multi-millionaire.

02:38:25Fuck him.

02:38:27And so, yeah, I used to sell weed.

02:38:32Out of the studio?

02:38:34Yeah, because 50 quid a day.

02:38:3550 quid a day, you're on.

02:38:39Trying to hustle and rent and everything.

02:38:41Kids.

02:38:42You've got to survive.

02:38:43Yeah, exactly.

02:38:46That's why Hempullocks fits so well.

02:38:47Because it's been the root of my life.

02:38:51I should never have listened to reggae.

02:38:55No, I should.

02:38:55I love it.

02:38:56I don't mind.

02:38:57You know what?

02:38:58I've got no regrets.

02:38:59Same.

02:39:01I can't live life regrets.

02:39:02You don't look back, you have to look forward.

02:39:05You've got to keep going forward and doing your music.

02:39:08All right, guys, well, let's call it a day for now.

02:39:10We'll do another one.

02:39:11Yeah, let's do another one.

02:39:13Round two.

02:39:13Round two.

02:39:14Yeah, thanks for having us and everyone.

02:39:17Big up and enjoy Christmas.

02:39:19Is this going to be before Christmas?

02:39:20Yeah, I'll get it out this week.

02:39:21Enjoy Merry Christmas because last year was terrible, wasn't it?

02:39:24We were all fucked.

02:39:25All of us, no one can do now because it was COVID.

02:39:28Everyone could stay at home while in England.

02:39:31That was the rules.

02:39:33But I still haven't been vaccinated.

02:39:35Suckers.

02:39:38But I don't, you know, I'm not like a... Anti-vaxxer?

02:39:41Yeah.

02:39:41I'm just waiting for, I'll take that risk and I'm waiting to see if yous are all going to grow free brains.

02:39:49No, but, you know, I don't know.

02:39:52I think it was all super rushed.

02:39:54It's been, yeah.

02:39:55But anyway, Brexit and COVID, God, it's been a nightmare.

02:39:59It's been a fucking shit since 2013.

02:40:00Families and friends and lovers falling out.

02:40:03Divorces and fucking split ups.

02:40:05Yeah.

02:40:06Oh, my God.

02:40:07It's been a bad, it's been a bad five years.

02:40:09Then it's been good for like, you know what?

02:40:11I don't like this, what I'm doing.

02:40:13What am I doing?

02:40:14You know, I want to change.

02:40:16Loads of people have gone, this isn't what I want.

02:40:18I want to actually do what I want to do.

02:40:19Yeah, because you've stopped in the rat race for a second, you know, because we're all chasing carrots.

02:40:24Yes.

02:40:24The never ending carrot that doesn't exist.

02:40:27You know what I mean?

02:40:28You just gotta live and die and then you, it doesn't matter.

02:40:30That's it, all the shit I've got around me, you can't take nothing with you.

02:40:33How many summers have we got left, Gaj?

02:40:35How many summers?

02:40:39If I'm about like Mel Brooks, I'm halfway through my rotted life.

02:40:4595 he was.

02:40:50Imagine that.

02:40:50I wonder if he smoked weed.

02:40:53I don't know, I bet he smoked fat cigars Right then See you later